modding HUGE Problem with Modding RDR2 That No One is Talking About

[Osoa 3]

Can anyone recommend any mods for John that don't have an affect on this problem?

[Saber23454 3]

How would I go about testing if mods like Dark Nights cause issues, it probably doesnt but just to be safe.

[Sweetwater 2]

Just use the mod that u want to test and use the methods described in the previous posts in this thread.

I am running a setup of around 15-20 mods and everything works well for me. I have listed all of them previously and I believe that I still have some less animal spawns but it is still too less to notice unless I compare with the base game.

[deadwoodd 6]

A few updates:

 

After countless hours of testing, I thought I had officially solved my issue (using chuck's chicken run as a test bench, which is great btw) with passengers on trams and trains, but I did notice my trolley passengers weren't as present as they were on vanilla, and sometimes I'd only see 2/3 chickens as opposed to 7-10 (which was inconsistent too). Did a bit more testing, and also realized that certain animal ambient events weren't happening. After some fixing, everything is now working perfectly.

 

Don't only look for trams and trains, also look for ambient events - wolves hunting grizzlies, fox/coyotes hunting rabbits, owls hunting rabbits at night, eagles/hawks catching fish from the water, etc etc. Even though I had passengers, I wasn't seeing many of these events. I now have all tram passengers, trains in the wild, passengers on my trolleys, passengers on other wagons, all ambient event spawns, tons of peds/animals, etc.

 

Here's my modlist with everything 100% working the same as vanilla (blocked mod is my graphics mod WIP):
[another edit: no longer using characters overhaul, after learning more about it, its just a bad mod and I would not recommend it]

(also, FWIW, the problematic mod for me was EQUUS, even after changing it to use the replacement method, although I don't think anyone should use it anyway considering it's quality)

Edited December 17, 2024 by deadwoodd

[seba9087 0]

18 hours ago, deadwoodd said:

A few updates:

 

After countless hours of testing, I thought I had officially solved my issue (using chuck's chicken run as a test bench, which is great btw) with passengers on trams and trains, but I did notice my trolley passengers weren't as present as they were on vanilla, and sometimes I'd only see 2/3 chickens as opposed to 7-10 (which was inconsistent too). Did a bit more testing, and also realized that certain animal ambient events weren't happening. After some fixing, everything is now working perfectly.

 

Don't only look for trams and trains, also look for ambient events - wolves hunting grizzlies, fox/coyotes hunting rabbits, owls hunting rabbits at night, eagles/hawks catching fish from the water, etc etc. Even though I had passengers, I wasn't seeing many of these events. I now have all tram passengers, trains in the wild, passengers on my trolleys, passengers on other wagons, all ambient event spawns, tons of peds/animals, etc.

 

Here's my modlist with everything 100% working the same as vanilla (blocked mod is my graphics mod WIP):

(also, FWIW, the problematic mod for me was EQUUS, even after changing it to use the replacement method, although I don't think anyone should use it anyway considering it's quality)

 

Hey man, you are doing god's work here. This is incredible value and it takes a lot of dedication. Kudos and cheers.

 

Can these mods be installed in full or are there any considerations to be made while installing one by one?

 

[deadwoodd 6]

12 hours ago, seba9087 said:

 

Hey man, you are doing god's work here. This is incredible value and it takes a lot of dedication. Kudos and cheers.

 

Can these mods be installed in full or are there any considerations to be made while installing one by one?

 

All of these can be installed together in full without problems but with a few exceptions:

 

• "Disable Horse Camera Centering" and "No Kill Cam Filter" are conflicting because they both edit cameras.ymt, however, fixing the conflict is super easy.

1. Download Disable Horse Camera Centering
2. Install normally, place whole folder inside /lml folder
3. Inside the "Disable Horse Camera Centering" folder, right click cameras.ymt > edit with notepad/notepad++
4. Ctrl + F and search for 0x55AAD59B
5. You will see "<UNK_MEMBER_0x55AAD59B>0xBF33E090</UNK_MEMBER_0x55AAD59B>"
6. Replace this ENTIRE line with only this: "<UNK_MEMBER_0x55AAD59B/>"
7. Save, and done.

• Extended Player Animations will show in LML Conflict Checker as having a conflict with the other folder included in the mod, but you can ignore this as they aren't used anyway. No idea why the mod author did this, but just install normally.
   
• Graphical Issue Fixes will conflict with any visual mod that you have (Visual Redemption, WhyEm's Visuals, Best TAA and Visual Effects, etc). To fix this, it is also very easy.

1. Download Graphical Issue Fixes and place whole folder inside /lml folder
2. Open up the Fixes subfolder inside the main Graphical Issue Fixes folder
3. Delete visualsettings.dat, timecycle_mods_2.xml, timecycle_mods_1.xml, and systemsettings.ymt.
   (for context, nearly every single visual mod nowadays already includes the fixes listed in these prior files, so no need for them)

With that being said, my final recommendations (which are not necessary but again, highly recommended) are these:

1. Open visualsettings.dat (from whatever visual mod you are using) and replace the values with the ones listed here.
2. Find system.xml located in \Documents\Rockstar Games\Red Dead Redemption 2\Settings. Right click > edit with notepad/notepad++, find "DirectionalScreenSpaceShadowQuality" and set to 0. Find "PedLodBias" and set to 1.0. Make sure "FXAA", "MSAA", and "Reflection MSAA" are disabled. Find maxTexUpgradesPerFrame and set to 25. Find "POMQuality" and set to high (or anything EXCEPT ultra).
3. Save the changes, right click on system.xml, go to properties, check Read-Only, enjoy.

 

Other than that, the modlist is 100% working like I said with no problems. And I've done ALOT of testing. Any questions, feel free to ask.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2024 by deadwoodd

[Chunk the chump 20]

EDIT: this mod doesnt cause spawn issues, its fine

 

Edited January 4 by Chunk the chump
IT DOESNT CAUSE ISSUES

[Chunk the chump 20]

-

Edited January 4 by Chunk the chump

[nunk 0]

I've done a number of playthroughs over the years, both vanilla and heavily modded, and I've been kicking myself for not noticing this. I've always attributed it to Rockstar's awful RDO updates breaking singleplayer. No wonder I could never find any flamingos, badgers, or even chickens.

 

Basing this off the chicken run test posted earlier (loading into Valentine and seeing how many chickens appear near the pens), here's my current list of mods:

Timescale

Extended Player Animations

NPC Aiming Animations

Improvements in Blood

Lost and Found Scout Jacket

Flo

A.E.M

1899 Firearms

Natural Dirt

Online Content Unlocker

GunFX

TKoul's GameConfig

 

[A whole bunch of .asi mods]

 

FirearmCosmetics WILL break the game. I've been testing with/without it and it consistently deletes both chickens and tram passengers. 1899 Firearms works without it, but I'll update this post as I start a new playthrough and if I notice anything breaking.

 

Thanks for all the work testing this issue, this is one of the most insidious mod-related issues I've ever seen.

Edit: Here's WickedHorseMan's Firearm Cosmetics compressed to BC3 / DXT5 Linear. Wish I could compress to higher res but I can't get RDR2 Texture Toolkit to work past DXT5 linear.

 

Works on my machine, TPs around the map saw me chickens and trams.

 

Unzip, stream folder goes into lml\WickedHorseMan\Textures\FirearmCosmetics. Overwrite all.

https://mega.nz/file/FGBUTLrB#klA-bJjOPHKTvbvNlxC4FaHl6yL7ZZrf7cV4fEweZ8o

Edited December 27, 2024 by nunk
Added link

[deadwoodd 6]

On 12/25/2024 at 2:41 PM, nunk said:

I've done a number of playthroughs over the years, both vanilla and heavily modded, and I've been kicking myself for not noticing this. I've always attributed it to Rockstar's awful RDO updates breaking singleplayer. No wonder I could never find any flamingos, badgers, or even chickens.

 

Basing this off the chicken run test posted earlier (loading into Valentine and seeing how many chickens appear near the pens), here's my current list of mods:

Timescale

Extended Player Animations

NPC Aiming Animations

Improvements in Blood

Lost and Found Scout Jacket

Flo

A.E.M

1899 Firearms

Natural Dirt

Online Content Unlocker

GunFX

TKoul's GameConfig

 

[A whole bunch of .asi mods]

 

FirearmCosmetics WILL break the game. I've been testing with/without it and it consistently deletes both chickens and tram passengers. 1899 Firearms works without it, but I'll update this post as I start a new playthrough and if I notice anything breaking.

 

Thanks for all the work testing this issue, this is one of the most insidious mod-related issues I've ever seen.

Edit: Here's WickedHorseMan's Firearm Cosmetics compressed to BC3 / DXT5 Linear. Wish I could compress to higher res but I can't get RDR2 Texture Toolkit to work past DXT5 linear.

 

Works on my machine, TPs around the map saw me chickens and trams.

 

Unzip, stream folder goes into lml\WickedHorseMan\Textures\FirearmCosmetics. Overwrite all.

https://mega.nz/file/FGBUTLrB#klA-bJjOPHKTvbvNlxC4FaHl6yL7ZZrf7cV4fEweZ8o

Also, FWIW, this is the same case for a majority of texture heavy mods including WhyEm's DLC, EEE, etc. You can get them to work correctly, as long as you properly compress the textures yourself. This is part of the reason why, for example, Terrain Textures Overhaul (which I don't use anymore but for other reasons) shouldn't cause spawning issues because nigeez used a proper compression method. This won't be the case for every mod, some are just borked from the jump, but its usually the case.

[DevilDore 0]

Had been passively following this thread since the summer, but had to join today to bring this to everyone's attention:

 

Looks like a possible fix just posted to Nexus over the holidays by author Syyyke: Syyyke's RDR2 Spawns FIX

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/5495?tab=files

 

It seems to work for me thus far after about 10 hours of play time.  Was shocked at the number of trains I could HEAR before even seeing them.  Complete change in terms of ambiance.

 

Only hassle is it "requires" ScripthookV2 (instead of AB's...he has an explanation for why as it relates to the treatment of the Ped pools), and dinput8.dll (instead of version.dll).  Some mods may not work if those are swapped.  Importantly, he attributes version.dll to being part of the reason game mechanics get borked.  

 

Perhaps the best news is threefold: (1) he has been actively working on this since November 2024; (2) most feedback is very recent and positive; and (3) he is quick to respond to feedback, questions, and troubleshooting.  Looks like we finally have someone who is aggressively working on this in real time!

 

EDIT:  as I posted this, he just updated it version 2.1 and included a handful of patches for popular mods (looks like he is taking requests for new patches, too!). 

 

EDIT 2:  It is now a "Hot Mod" on Nexus.  

Edited December 28, 2024 by DevilDore

[Ides4 0]

6 hours ago, DevilDore said:

Had been passively following this thread since the summer, but had to join today to bring this to everyone's attention:

 

Looks like a possible fix just posted to Nexus over the holidays by author Syyyke: Syyyke's RDR2 Spawns FIX

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/5495?tab=files

 

It seems to work for me thus far after about 10 hours of play time.  Was shocked at the number of trains I could HEAR before even seeing them.  Complete change in terms of ambiance.

 

Only hassle is it "requires" ScripthookV2 (instead of AB's...he has an explanation for why as it relates to the treatment of the Ped pools), and dinput8.dll (instead of version.dll).  Some mods may not work if those are swapped.  Importantly, he attributes version.dll to being part of the reason game mechanics get borked.  

 

Perhaps the best news is threefold: (1) he has been actively working on this since November 2024; (2) most feedback is very recent and positive; and (3) he is quick to respond to feedback, questions, and troubleshooting.  Looks like we finally have someone who is aggressively working on this in real time!

 

EDIT:  as I posted this, he just updated it version 2.1 and included a handful of patches for popular mods (looks like he is taking requests for new patches, too!). 

 

EDIT 2:  It is now a "Hot Mod" on Nexus.  

I don't know how anyone is able to run those configs without crashing, and I've tried the Lite variants. Got a 4090 too. Guess it just doesn't mesh well with my system.

[Osoa 3]

On 12/28/2024 at 7:25 PM, DevilDore said:

Had been passively following this thread since the summer, but had to join today to bring this to everyone's attention:

 

Looks like a possible fix just posted to Nexus over the holidays by author Syyyke: Syyyke's RDR2 Spawns FIX

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/5495?tab=files

 

It seems to work for me thus far after about 10 hours of play time.  Was shocked at the number of trains I could HEAR before even seeing them.  Complete change in terms of ambiance.

 

Only hassle is it "requires" ScripthookV2 (instead of AB's...he has an explanation for why as it relates to the treatment of the Ped pools), and dinput8.dll (instead of version.dll).  Some mods may not work if those are swapped.  Importantly, he attributes version.dll to being part of the reason game mechanics get borked.  

 

Perhaps the best news is threefold: (1) he has been actively working on this since November 2024; (2) most feedback is very recent and positive; and (3) he is quick to respond to feedback, questions, and troubleshooting.  Looks like we finally have someone who is aggressively working on this in real time!

 

EDIT:  as I posted this, he just updated it version 2.1 and included a handful of patches for popular mods (looks like he is taking requests for new patches, too!). 

 

EDIT 2:  It is now a "Hot Mod" on Nexus.  

 

I'm trying this mod and am not getting tram spawns, however I still have a lot of stream folders. Could you tell me whether or not you have stream folders and whether or not peds spawn in trams?

[Chungo 4]

On 12/30/2024 at 11:22 AM, Osoa said:

 

I'm trying this mod and am not getting tram spawns, however I still have a lot of stream folders. Could you tell me whether or not you have stream folders and whether or not peds spawn in trams?

The mod in question breaks more stuff than it fixes. I can't really say it fixes anything sadly. Odd how quickly was the author to say it fixed everything (according to mod description it even gives you a "performance boost" lmao), when there have been already multiple reports of crashes, HUGE memory leaks (even on high end GPUs), ambient peds behaving erraticaly, more evident spawning issues than ever before (from wildlife, to trams, trains, passengers... you name it).

 

I tried the mod on four different rigs, every possible update that the author put out. All of those PCs with completely different setups, but forementioned problems persisted anyhow. Besides -and most importantly- mod author spent a good couple of days deleting comments of people reporting issues and calling the dude out for his bs. Pretty hilarious how he seems very sure and tautological claiming how he has fixed this old, complex issue, but then proceeds to shield himself by saying the magic words "every system is different" when you report some bugs.

 

It's also quite funny because not even the author seems to know how the train system works, despite being an active modder. There is a very recent comment from him saying that if you see or rather hear trains as soon as you load a save, then your trains are working correctly, regardless if you see them or not out in the wild or near cities.

 

So yeah, I would advise everyone to be a bit more nitpicky when it comes to these self-proclaimed messiahs; mod authors who randomly pop in the scene and seek for fame and clout by gulling and fooling everyone with their miraculous snake oils.

[Edegon 14]

On 12/7/2024 at 1:21 PM, Osoa said:

Can anyone recommend any mods for John that don't have an affect on this problem?

Currently I'm using:

• QoL - Artie and Johnny (with my own custom install.xml)
• The Legend of the West (custom install.xml)
• Classic Cowboy 3.0 (custom install.xml)
• Cowboy Outfit Reworked (custom install.xml and only some items)
• Extended Player Animations (with all the optionals)

I also have some other minor mods for John but these are the main ones.
If you want I'll share the install.xmls (they're required to avoid, or at least minimize, problems), the load order and everything.

[moiza.sanzovo 0]

On 12/25/2024 at 4:41 PM, nunk said:

I've done a number of playthroughs over the years, both vanilla and heavily modded, and I've been kicking myself for not noticing this. I've always attributed it to Rockstar's awful RDO updates breaking singleplayer. No wonder I could never find any flamingos, badgers, or even chickens.

 

Basing this off the chicken run test posted earlier (loading into Valentine and seeing how many chickens appear near the pens), here's my current list of mods:

Timescale

Extended Player Animations

NPC Aiming Animations

Improvements in Blood

Lost and Found Scout Jacket

Flo

A.E.M

1899 Firearms

Natural Dirt

Online Content Unlocker

GunFX

TKoul's GameConfig

 

[A whole bunch of .asi mods]

 

FirearmCosmetics WILL break the game. I've been testing with/without it and it consistently deletes both chickens and tram passengers. 1899 Firearms works without it, but I'll update this post as I start a new playthrough and if I notice anything breaking.

 

Thanks for all the work testing this issue, this is one of the most insidious mod-related issues I've ever seen.

Edit: Here's WickedHorseMan's Firearm Cosmetics compressed to BC3 / DXT5 Linear. Wish I could compress to higher res but I can't get RDR2 Texture Toolkit to work past DXT5 linear.

 

Works on my machine, TPs around the map saw me chickens and trams.

 

Unzip, stream folder goes into lml\WickedHorseMan\Textures\FirearmCosmetics. Overwrite all.

https://mega.nz/file/FGBUTLrB#klA-bJjOPHKTvbvNlxC4FaHl6yL7ZZrf7cV4fEweZ8o

How do you compress it? Is it possible to compress it to a lower resolution? And is it possible to do this with other mods?Like Whyem.

As incredible as it may seem, the trains and peds are appearing, there are some bugs, but I think if compress it to a lower resolution, it will work.

Edited January 3 by moiza.sanzovo

[Ides4 0]

5 hours ago, Edegon said:

Currently I'm using:

• QoL - Artie and Johnny (with my own custom install.xml)
• The Legend of the West (custom install.xml)
• Classic Cowboy 3.0 (custom install.xml)
• Cowboy Outfit Reworked (custom install.xml and only some items)
• Extended Player Animations (with all the optionals)

I also have some other minor mods for John but these are the main ones.
If you want I'll share the install.xmls (they're required to avoid, or at least minimize, problems), the load order and everything.

Please share if you can. My spawns work but QOL is the largest mod in my stream folder.

[Edegon 14]

5 hours ago, Ides4 said:

Please share if you can. My spawns work but QOL is the largest mod in my stream folder.

You shouldn't use the stream folder at all, you get mods mixed up, at least use the auto-installer in ModManager to keep them in separate folders.
Anyway here's the files, I hope the instructions are clear enough:

JMOptimizedPack.7z

[Ides4 0]

19 hours ago, Edegon said:

You shouldn't use the stream folder at all, you get mods mixed up, at least use the auto-installer in ModManager to keep them in separate folders.
Anyway here's the files, I hope the instructions are clear enough:

JMOptimizedPack.7z 40.67 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks so much for your help!

[Chunk the chump 20]

Hi,

I know there are a lot of misinformation going around with Streaming Vs FIlereplacement right now, and some of it can be contributed to me as I was a believer at some point that streaming indeed can cause issues, but it seems like that is not the case.

 

I will have a video about this in the upcoming days to clarify things but for now please do not look to FIle Replacement as a definitive fix for any spawn issues if you have any.

 

And also please please do not believe  in these ''spawn fixes'' made by syyke, those mods break the game more than anything else by forcing peds to spawn of trolleys and trains. This does not fix any issues if your game is struggling with ped culling already. The author employs heavy censorship in the nexus modpage, deleting every negative comment essentially tricking people to believe that the mod is amazing and better than in reality.

 

Right now the more educated part of the modding community thinks that the cause of spawn issues is incorrect texture compression method employed by a lot of authors in the past.

 

For example the newest update of Terrain Textures Overhaul contain over 20gb of textures and they all work flawlessly without problems at least while testing for spawn issues in the short term.

[JKL409 8]

33 minutes ago, Chunk the chump said:

Hi,

I know there are a lot of misinformation going around with Streaming Vs FIlereplacement right now, and some of it can be contributed to me as I was a believer at some point that streaming indeed can cause issues, but it seems like that is not the case.

 

I will have a video about this in the upcoming days to clarify things but for now please do not look to FIle Replacement as a definitive fix for any spawn issues if you have any.

 

And also please please do not believe  in these ''spawn fixes'' made by syyke, those mods break the game more than anything else by forcing peds to spawn of trolleys and trains. This does not fix any issues if your game is struggling with ped culling already. The author employs heavy censorship in the nexus modpage, deleting every negative comment essentially tricking people to believe that the mod is amazing and better than in reality.

 

Right now the more educated part of the modding community thinks that the cause of spawn issues is incorrect texture compression method employed by a lot of authors in the past.

 

For example the newest update of Terrain Textures Overhaul contain over 20gb of textures and they all work flawlessly without problems at least while testing for spawn issues in the short term.

I've tested Syyke's spawn fix mod a fair bit, and so far it seems to be working extremely well, with no issues. Saying it simply doesn't work and just breaks the game makes your argument seem silly, as clearly it is working for some people at least. 

 

In regards to your point about the latest Terrain Textures Overhaul mod, that mod doesn't use high resolution upscaled textures but instead replaces them entirely with new ones, so there would be no additional strain on the engine.

[Chunk the chump 20]

47 minutes ago, JKL409 said:

I've tested Syyke's spawn fix mod a fair bit, and so far it seems to be working extremely well, with no issues. Saying it simply doesn't work and just breaks the game makes your argument seem silly, as clearly it is working for some people at least. 

 

In regards to your point about the latest Terrain Textures Overhaul mod, that mod doesn't use high resolution upscaled textures but instead replaces them entirely with new ones, so there would be no additional strain on the engine.

How would you be able to tell if the stem of your issue is fixed if the mod literally forces peds to spawn on the places where we usually test this?

You do know, that the issue is not just that train/trolley peds do not spawn, right? That is just an easily measurable symptome of the problem we utilize in absence of fully comprehensive testing methods.

Hiding an issue does not equal a fix. How do you know that by forcing high priority spawns on scenarios which should be low priority by default doesnt create more agressive culling for peds or events elsewhere?

 

And regarding TTO. have you tested the newe version of TTO with

 

 

            <StreamingFiles>CityTextures</StreamingFiles>
            <StreamingFiles>TerrainMainTextures</StreamingFiles>
            <StreamingFiles>TerrainPlacementTextures</StreamingFiles>

 

 

in the install.xml instead of filereplacement?

 

Because I have been testing that and it acts exactly the same. so that's 20gb of STREAMING textures without spawn issues. Streaming does not create spawn issues. In fact I would ventrue to saying that nobody even knows what the difference is between streaming and filereplacement inside lml besides the name. Nobody knows if vfs.asi is acting any differently in regards to the method you use.

Edited January 4 by Chunk the chump

[JKL409 8]

9 minutes ago, Chunk the chump said:

How would you be able to tell if the stem of your issue is fixed if the mod literally forces peds to spawn on the places where we usually test this?

You do know, that the issue is not just that train/trolley peds do not spawn, right? That is just an easily measurable symptome of the problem we utilize in absence of fully comprehensive testing methods.

Hiding an issue does not equal a fix. How do you know that by forcing high priority spawns on scenarios which should be low priority by default doesnt create more agressive culling for peds or events elsewhere?

 

And regarding TTO. have you tested the newe version of TTO with

 

 

            <StreamingFiles>CityTextures</StreamingFiles>
            <StreamingFiles>TerrainMainTextures</StreamingFiles>
            <StreamingFiles>TerrainPlacementTextures</StreamingFiles>

 

 

in the install.xml instead of filereplacement?

 

Because I have been testing that and it acts exactly the same. so that's 20gb of STREAMING textures without spawn issues. Streaming does not create spawn issues. In fact I would ventrue to saying that nobody even knows what the difference is between streaming and filereplacement inside lml besides the name. Nobody knows if vfs.asi is acting any differently in regards to the method you use.

If peds, trains, trams, animals, boats, carts and horses all spawn seemingly correctly, then what else is there left to be concerned about..?

[Chunk the chump 20]

16 minutes ago, JKL409 said:

If peds, trains, trams, animals, boats, carts and horses all spawn seemingly correctly, then what else is there left to be concerned about..?

Do you think a room is clean if you sweep all the garbage under the table?

What if it starts coming out of the other side once its full?

[JKL409 8]

21 minutes ago, Chunk the chump said:

Do you think a room is clean if you sweep all the garbage under the table?

What if it starts coming out of the other side once its full?

Look, it's clearly not the kind of fix GTAV got when the whole dissappearing DLC cars and other such issues started cropping up. But... For now it's a significant jump over anything else we've had, and clearly the developer has done quite a bit of research and testing.

 

So I'm not gonna shit all over the guy for making a good attempt at fixing the issue. No other fixes exist, if creators want to come up with their own rival fix methods that's fine, but they haven't.