kaozzz777 18 Posted May 14 Posted May 14 Simply keep spreading the information will help. This thread is evidence. One can only speculate, I think modding gets influenced negatively when monitization got involved through stuff like Patreon, Reward programs and similar. Plus nowadays everyone cooking up their own Discord server instead of teaming up to form a centralized community and sharing knowledge. The mentioned attidude of some authors is an example of ego getting in the way, reading it as a personal attack instead of an academic discussion. - - - - - - - - - - - - - Once someone got a successful modding list going, I encourage to share it in detail including which Scripthook version. Sometimes it's a combination of mods instead of a single one that might work isolated. I settled for AB's Scripthook + OCU for now which is outdated, but most mods are programmed for it and V2 backwards compatibility doesn't always work out. Can you please tell me which issues RampageTrainer has? So far I haven't noticed them but would be good to know what to look at. I only noticed that the PedCounter only works correctly with V2. So far regarding Ped Spawns, I appear to have a correctly running game with EE+BasicNeeds+TempOverhaul; RDO+OCU; WERO and a few leightweight stuff for VFX and GUI. Still testing tho. 2 Quote
Dagger323 34 Posted May 14 Author Posted May 14 5 minutes ago, kaozzz777 said: Simply keep spreading the information will help. This thread is evidence. One can only speculate, I think modding gets influenced negatively when monitization got involved through stuff like Patreon, Reward programs and similar. Plus nowadays everyone cooking up their own Discord server instead of teaming up to form a centralized community and sharing knowledge. The mentioned attidude of some authors is an example of ego getting in the way, reading it as a personal attack instead of an academic discussion. I completely agree with you; you assessed it perfectly. I wish more authors would take it upon themselves to speak publicly about this problem and be open to receiving new information when they are unaware of something instead of immediately getting their backs up whenever you try and inform them. It's not a personal attack at all; it's an effort to bring awareness of the problem to the entire community where there is blatantly underinformed users and still not enough discussion on the subject. Quote
Saber23454 3 Posted May 14 Posted May 14 (edited) Hey, Im new to rdr2 modding and I read through this thread and during the mission where you give out the moonshine for free with Hosea, a train is there right outside rhodes, is this scripted or is it random? btw I was using NPC catalog and trains were missing and trams empty Edited May 15 by Saber23454 Forgot to add this, it is very important Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 14 Posted May 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dagger323 said: Unfortunately that isn't quite how it works; that Colt Navy revolver mod still uses file streaming as the install method, not file replacement. This can be confirmed by opening the install.xml in the mod folder and seeing the line "<StreamingFiles>Streamer</StreamingFiles>". File replacement is not just a matter of substituting a modded file in place of a vanilla one in the game; if that was the case then most modded horse .ymt/.ytd files would be totally fine (but from my troubleshooting I've found that they can contribute to the train spawn bug). Instead it is how the files are substituted in. They can either be streamed in (known to cause issues) or installed as file replacements (believed to not cause issues, or at least not as many). I would still say to download it and try it for yourself and confirm whether or not you notice any spawning issue with it. But given the confirmed issues with file streaming, I think mod authors need to be moving away from using streaming files at this point. The problem is that far too many people in the community are still under some delusion that only large texture file mods are the culprit and that smaller files don't cause any problem. I just responded to the mod author of the newly released "Blackwater Terrain Textures Overhaul" in the comments section of the (also) newly released "Artwork Inspired Hat" mod (Artwork Inspired Hat at Red Dead Redemption 2 Nexus - Mods and community (nexusmods.com)). I had requested that the author of the Artwork Inspired Hat mod upload the hat mod using the file replacement method as opposed to using file streaming, considering that streaming files which specifically affect player clothing textures are widely known to be one of the biggest and most immediate direct contributors to the spawning issue — to which the mod author of the "Blackwater Terrain Textures Overhaul" responded and basically said that I was totally misinformed and that only large texture mods needed to use file replacement while smaller mods were fine. As long as we have people in the community, especially mod authors, with this mentality, and with evidently very little or no actual experience troubleshooting this issue themselves, this will continue to be an ongoing problem. Thank you kindly for your extensive reply. That unfortunately has happened to me a few times now. WhyEm (the mod author) even said publicly one time that all the problems related to his mods were caused solely because of "using cracked/pirated copies of the game". I wish I had a screenshot of that, but it happened long ago, when the comment section on his mods was open. I did try the Navy Revolver conversion mod last night. Fantastic mod I must say, but the moment I installed it, loaded a save and equipped the gun trains got literally wiped out from the open world. Crazy. I'm not even exaggerating here. Funny thing is that I managed to get some trains back by just unequipping the gun with the mod still installed. I went back to encountering trains almost right in front of me when deleting the mod's files (a bunch of .ytds) and reloading the save. I didn't need to do any more testing because it was so blatantly obvious that 90% of the trains were missing that I did not even need to isolate the mod. My other mods are Graphical Fixes, Stutter Fix (same author), OCU, Smoking Complete, Holstering Animation and Just Disable Vignette. So yeah, one simple model replacement mod can fuck up the game. It's really that easy. I don't understand why people still don't want to see it as a problem. It's mod authors more than anyone else who need to step up, I'm totally with you. Edited May 14 by Sanah 1 Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 14 Posted May 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, kaozzz777 said: Simply keep spreading the information will help. This thread is evidence. One can only speculate, I think modding gets influenced negatively when monitization got involved through stuff like Patreon, Reward programs and similar. Plus nowadays everyone cooking up their own Discord server instead of teaming up to form a centralized community and sharing knowledge. The mentioned attidude of some authors is an example of ego getting in the way, reading it as a personal attack instead of an academic discussion. - - - - - - - - - - - - - Once someone got a successful modding list going, I encourage to share it in detail including which Scripthook version. Sometimes it's a combination of mods instead of a single one that might work isolated. I settled for AB's Scripthook + OCU for now which is outdated, but most mods are programmed for it and V2 backwards compatibility doesn't always work out. Can you please tell me which issues RampageTrainer has? So far I haven't noticed them but would be good to know what to look at. I only noticed that the PedCounter only works correctly with V2. So far regarding Ped Spawns, I appear to have a correctly running game with EE+BasicNeeds+TempOverhaul; RDO+OCU; WERO and a few leightweight stuff for VFX and GUI. Still testing tho. Same here. AB's ScriptHook + AB's dinput + OCU is the way to go in my opinion. I don't think it's honestly that outdated, I've always used it and never really needed to switch to V2 because AB's works perfectly fine; never gave me a single issue in any version. version.dll is another story though, that one should be avoided at all costs. It limits walking animations, machete animations, breaks duels and so on... Regarding RampageTrainer I just stopped using it since the last game update because everytime I loaded up a savepoint after failing a mission with it installed the game would crash. I did some testing and found out Rampage was the one to blame but I would have to try again, since I just started fresh. This is my current modlist: - AB's ScriptHook (including dinput) - OCU - No Bullet Trails - Just Disable Vignette - Holstering Animation - Smoking Complete - Stutter Fix - Graphical Fixes I've been using RDO + Realistic Reload too (RDO compatible version) along with the others listed and didn't seem to cause issues, but I prefer staying away from catalog mods for now. Sidenote: I'd like to pinpoint that although I've seen trains spawn regularly when using RDO, I have not been able to see them appear naturally, not even in less populated areas. I do get trains with RDO but the spawn rate is reduced. I hear them in the distance, but they do not appear near me anymore. Edited May 14 by Sanah Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 14 Posted May 14 (edited) 57 minutes ago, SerjRozov said: The first post of this thread should include a number of confirmed mods that cause the spawn issue bug and direct steps to reproduce it. Plus game, scripthook, lml versions. Bcuz otherwise it might look like a bs as I seen it at first. Though I havent realized that some game features just disappeared bcuz I got used to it like it was a vanilla game behavior. Now - My game ver. 1491.50 Official AB Scripthook lml 11 Mod that causing spawn bug: Whyem DLC - no trains, mostly empty trams, no coaches in SD. (Though I would like to know if there's someone who doesn't have a problem with it) Steps to reproduce: Doesn't matter Arthur/John. Take some mod's clothes on like: hat, coat, gloves and make a save in Valentine, morning (~6-9 a.m.), reload it and ride through Flatneck to Riggs station. Right after crossing the bridge there wont be a train (10/10 tries). Then deactivate Whyem DLC in lml and load the same save - there will be a cargo train every time. Mods that have been ON while I was testing it: Reveal hidden contents lml: *OCU *Dismember everyone | initially - streaming_files but I redone .yft as file_replacement | *Extended_John_Animations *Maize_Sack_Fix by iABokai | initially - streaming_files but I redone it as file_replacement | *John_Can_Swim *Herbalist / Huntsman / LAW *RainFix+NoVignette *Remove Screen Effects *Corpse Spawn Distance *WERO 1.2sec *Whyem Bloodbath *Wickedhorseman: Timescale, ManualPickups, Nitro (dismemberment only), Snappy Ui *Bolmin: No_Auto_Ammo_Pickups, (gonna test Seasons soon) .ASI: AllowMenu (after death) CampfireWeaponLocker CutDialogueEnhanced DisableHorseHolstering Duels FastWalk FirstPersonWalkFix FixToggleRun GatlingWagons NoBulletTrail NonStickyHats1.0 RemoveSpeedLimits SmokingComplete SurvivalMechanics Visual Settings Reloader Rampage Trainer Deleted .asi for testing purposes (adding new content?): horseHolster RestoredCutContent-Quiver1.6.6 Seasons So I would like that anyone gives me an example of a texture mod that operates via streaming_files that 100% causes the spawn issues. Note: While I've been doing a small mod for myself lately *RainFix+NoVignette been using Visual Settings Reloader and Rampage Trainer, there were no problems with both, random trains were spawning behind me in Annesburg region and then I went to SD and trams were full and there were coaches with passengers etc. *My thoughts on this issue are pretty simple, its not textures loaded via streaming_files rather - new added assets which you cant find in the game folder. But if there's no other way to load them in (even though if I get it correctly those Whyems DLC assets are from MP) there's nothing can be done other than replacing vanilla clothes. *Why its not streaming_files issue? Firstly - there's no info about that one method is worse than another at LML page (!) And secondly - bcuz nobody's gonna manually write dirs to files or write scripts to pack 400 or more edited textures via replacement method. *Gameconfig, pool tweaks and sh't, nah I think its a bs and not gonna fix injecting of new assets, though I would like to be wrong. *And again I am willing to test a texture mod that breaks spawns to prove myself wrong. Peace. I appreciate your efforts, but most of the people who have reported problems on here, myself included, have already specified their game version (because they play the game legally) and which mods they are using and/or isolating when doing troubleshooting and tests. Like I said before, I've been suffering from these problems ever since July 2020, when I first acquired the game on Rockstar Games Launcher. I have tried multiple versions and updates since, through legal and not so legal ways, and I have always had the same results. I have tried multiple LML versions too, to no avail. Trust me, this thing goes waaaaay back, son. Besides, it's already been proven that WhyEm'sDLC introduces a number of spawning issues (not limited to trains, but also trams, peds and animals) whether or not you equip the gear. Simply purchasing stuff from the trapper causes problems-- the same problems we are constantly describing here. Thing is that installing mods, whether you intend to make use of them ingame or not, gives problems. We were just discussing a few posts ago how this is not caused just by adding texture assets, but virtually by adding mods altogether. Read a few pages back (or maybe the whole thread) and pay attention to what Dagger323 said about troubleshooting the issue when it comes to train spawns. You should be able to see trains pass almost constantly and naturally in the wild, but more importantly in big cities. Also, you use a ton of mods, but have you actually isolated them to see how the game functions? One by one? Edited May 14 by Sanah Quote
Dagger323 34 Posted May 14 Author Posted May 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, SerjRozov said: The first post of this thread should include a number of confirmed mods that cause the spawn issue bug and direct steps to reproduce it. Plus game, scripthook, lml versions. Bcuz otherwise it might look like a bs as I seen it at first. Though I havent realized that some game features just disappeared bcuz I got used to it like it was a vanilla game behavior. Now - My game ver. 1491.50 Official AB Scripthook lml 11 Mod that causing spawn bug: Whyem DLC - no trains, mostly empty trams, no coaches in SD. (Though I would like to know if there's someone who doesn't have a problem with it) Steps to reproduce: Doesn't matter Arthur/John. Take some mod's clothes on like: hat, coat, gloves and make a save in Valentine, morning (~6-9 a.m.), reload it and ride through Flatneck to Riggs station. Right after crossing the bridge there wont be a train (10/10 tries). Then deactivate Whyem DLC in lml and load the same save - there will be a cargo train every time. Mods that have been ON while I was testing it: Reveal hidden contents lml: *OCU *Dismember everyone | initially - streaming_files but I redone .yft as file_replacement | *Extended_John_Animations *Maize_Sack_Fix by iABokai | initially - streaming_files but I redone it as file_replacement | *John_Can_Swim *Herbalist / Huntsman / LAW *RainFix+NoVignette *Remove Screen Effects *Corpse Spawn Distance *WERO 1.2sec *Whyem Bloodbath *Wickedhorseman: Timescale, ManualPickups, Nitro (dismemberment only), Snappy Ui *Bolmin: No_Auto_Ammo_Pickups, (gonna test Seasons soon) .ASI: AllowMenu (after death) CampfireWeaponLocker CutDialogueEnhanced DisableHorseHolstering Duels FastWalk FirstPersonWalkFix FixToggleRun GatlingWagons NoBulletTrail NonStickyHats1.0 RemoveSpeedLimits SmokingComplete SurvivalMechanics Visual Settings Reloader Rampage Trainer Deleted .asi for testing purposes (adding new content?): horseHolster RestoredCutContent-Quiver1.6.6 Seasons So I would like that anyone gives me an example of a texture mod that operates via streaming_files that 100% causes the spawn issues. Note: While I've been doing a small mod for myself lately *RainFix+NoVignette been using Visual Settings Reloader and Rampage Trainer, there were no problems with both, random trains were spawning behind me in Annesburg region and then I went to SD and trams were full and there were coaches with passengers etc. *My thoughts on this issue are pretty simple, its not textures loaded via streaming_files rather - new added assets which you cant find in the game folder. But if there's no other way to load them in (even though if I get it correctly those Whyems DLC assets are from MP) there's nothing can be done other than replacing vanilla clothes. *Why its not streaming_files issue? Firstly - there's no info about that one method is worse than another at LML page (!) And secondly - bcuz nobody's gonna manually write dirs to files or write scripts to pack 400 or more edited textures via replacement method. *Gameconfig, pool tweaks and sh't, nah I think its a bs and not gonna fix injecting of new assets, though I would like to be wrong. *And again I am willing to test a texture mod that breaks spawns to prove myself wrong. Peace. Go and test wickedhorseman's Firearm Cosmetics (vanilla version), as well as Arthur Morgan's Hat Remastered. Both are texture mods that use streaming files that will absolutely break spawns and prove to you what we've been saying. File streaming is absolutely an issue, though evidently not the only one. I'm not sure what you expect me to do aside from informing people that they need to troubleshoot their own game's mods and look out for the spawning problem. There are simply too many mods that cause the bug for me to make any sort of comprehensive list, and I don't have the time to test everything else that I'm not using and don't plan on using in my own game. "Providing steps to reproduce" is literally just installing mods and checking for ped, wildlife and train spawns with the mods installed lol. This is about as straightforward as you can get; unfortunately it's also very tedious and time consuming, and there's nothing I can do about that. I can't troubleshoot other people's games for them. That's something everyone is going to have to do for themselves. There's certainly enough people that have confirmed this issue at this point to negate any notion that this is all just "b.s." just because I'm not going out of my way to type up some big long (and frankly unnecessary) step-by-step guide next to every problematic mod I encounter. Anyone who would think that this is b.s. is simply an ignoramus, and I'm not going to waste time trying to convince them. The vast amount of evidence in this thread speaks for itself. Edited May 14 by Dagger323 1 Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 14 Posted May 14 7 minutes ago, Dagger323 said: Go and test wickedhorseman's Firearm Cosmetics (vanilla version), as well as Arthur Morgan's Hat Remastered. Both are texture mods that use streaming files that will absolutely break spawns and prove to you what we've been saying. File streaming is absolutely an issue, though evidently not the only one. I know you already stopped troubleshooting wildlife spawns, but damn, that one is a HUGE problem as well. I've been doing lots of tests today and even though my modlist is quite simple -I don't use a single texture mod of any type- my game is soulless. I already knew this was a problem but man, the difference is just ABYSMAL. If I want to see more than a couple birds I literally need to uninstall all my mods. I'm starting to give up on this. The main appeal of this game is how full of life it is supposed to be. Like other users said I'll be playing fully vanilla until someone is able to fix this. Quote
Dagger323 34 Posted May 14 Author Posted May 14 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Sanah said: I know you already stopped troubleshooting wildlife spawns, but damn, that one is a HUGE problem as well. I've been doing lots of tests today and even though my modlist is quite simple -I don't use a single texture mod of any type- my game is soulless. I already knew this was a problem but man, the difference is just ABYSMAL. If I want to see more than a couple birds I literally need to uninstall all my mods. I'm starting to give up on this. The main appeal of this game is how full of life it is supposed to be. Like other users said I'll be playing fully vanilla until someone is able to fix this. I edited more into that comment since you saw it I think lol. I hate to come off contemptuous but frankly I get annoyed having to hand-hold people that clearly don't bother reading through the thread, doubt what you, I, and countless others have already confirmed, and then force me to have to explain over again what I've already described two dozen times before. This is certainly a very widespread problem, and at this point there is no way that essentially everyone who has modded the game is not or has not experienced it to some degree, whether they're aware of it or not. At the end of the day, it comes down to each and every player needing to troubleshoot their own game and any and EVERY mod that they intend on using. This issue is far too vast to just figure on jotting down a list of bad mods. At this point, it would be more productive to make a list of mods that DON'T cause the problem, because there are evidently far fewer of them than the ones that do. Edited May 14 by Dagger323 1 Quote
Dagger323 34 Posted May 14 Author Posted May 14 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Sanah said: I know you already stopped troubleshooting wildlife spawns, but damn, that one is a HUGE problem as well. I've been doing lots of tests today and even though my modlist is quite simple -I don't use a single texture mod of any type- my game is soulless. I already knew this was a problem but man, the difference is just ABYSMAL. If I want to see more than a couple birds I literally need to uninstall all my mods. I'm starting to give up on this. The main appeal of this game is how full of life it is supposed to be. Like other users said I'll be playing fully vanilla until someone is able to fix this. I completely agree with you by the way (just in case I didn't make that clear in my previous response, and you're not someone who's annoying me lol). I am still experiencing wildlife and ped spawning issues, but not to the degree that I was in the beginning, and not to the degree of the train spawning problems. I'm mostly just going to put up with it until a fix is found. If I could get the trains working, I'd be pacified. As it is, it's very frustrating to play the game as if trains haven't been invented yet as of 1899 lol. Edited May 14 by Dagger323 1 Quote
kaozzz777 18 Posted May 14 Posted May 14 Daggers323's method is definitely detailed enough to check the claims and is foolproof. I tested it like this with several start-overs. I even had NPCs in StDenis trains once with WhyEm DLC but then animals didn't spawn correctly. But again, please be thorough when testing and don't install dozen mods at a time but go one by one. If you have an older install and save files, start fresh. - Purge your entire RDR2 folder under Documents (make a backup) - Download a fresh copy, make a back up of the original you can revert to - Set full access in Windows to your RDR2 install folder for your user account (right click - properties - security) Otherwise some script mods can't work correctly - Savegame: On nexus someone recently uploaded a clean fresh chapter 2 save file 2 Quote
kaozzz777 18 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 (edited) I was testing train spawns on the fresh Chapter 2 savegame and AB's SH. I can't find a way to be really sure because there is no definiteve explanation on how the train spawns work and test with consistency. I experimented without and with RailroadEngineer as suggested. There are no real train schedules but exist in a lmited way, the game has to adjust to the player when a ticket is bought so therefore has to adjust on the fly, the game spawns trains in certain locations reacting to player presence (just like the trams in St.Denis). Interesting was: I used Rampage to set the game minute to 150ms and standing near Flatneck where I marked in attached screenshot. Regularly trains where passing me. I also stand in the triangle of tracks at Emerald like this. Also got regularly trains. Under ScriptMonitor in Rampage I've noticed that the game always started a script called TrainRobbery. Game also starts animal behaviours (and spawns?) thorugh scripts and all the other dynamic stuff we notice breaking. Scripts are a big part of how the world functions. Makes the impression to me that a lot of issues are tied to it. Maybe certain textures have to register in a way so the scripts the game runs natively can execute properly. But that's way over my head, can only share observations. Edited May 15 by kaozzz777 1 Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dagger323 said: I completely agree with you by the way (just in case I didn't make that clear in my previous response, and you're not someone who's annoying me lol). I am still experiencing wildlife and ped spawning issues, but not to the degree that I was in the beginning, and not to the degree of the train spawning problems. I'm mostly just going to put up with it until a fix is found. If I could get the trains working, I'd be pacified. As it is, it's very frustrating to play the game as if trains haven't been invented yet as of 1899 lol. I completely understand you, no problem at all! Not only have you saved me lots of time of testing without knowing what the f... was going on in the game, but you gave me the necessary tools to be able to see it for myself, which I think is more important than anything else. Everyone could do the same, but I guess they are busy coping with the fact that this game simply does not work as it should when mods are installed. I resonate with you and your feelings. After many months of trial and error and spending hours and hours on this it's pretty infurating seeing entitled folks come here to say how wrong you are or telling how you should do things. It would be as simple as reading through the pages before making assumptions or correcting someone, but hey, if they still want to be in constant denial I guess there is very little we can do. Thread still up, which means proof still stands and it's right here for everyone to check. Edited May 15 by Sanah 1 Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, kaozzz777 said: I was testing train spawns on the fresh Chapter 2 savegame and AB's SH. I can't find a way to be really sure because there is no definiteve explanation on how the train spawns work and test with consistency. I experimented without and with RailroadEngineer as suggested. There are no real train schedules but exist in a lmited way, the game has to adjust to the player when a ticket is bought so therefore has to adjust on the fly, the game spawns trains in certain locations reacting to player presence (just like the trams in St.Denis). Interesting was: I used Rampage to set the game minute to 150ms and standing near Flatneck where I marked in attached screenshot. Regularly trains where passing me. I also stand in the triangle of tracks at Emerald like this. Also got regularly trains. Under ScriptMonitor in Rampage I've noticed that the game always started a script called TrainRobbery. Game also starts animal behaviours (and spawns?) thorugh scripts and all the other dynamic stuff we notice breaking. Scripts are a big part of how the world functions. Makes the impression to me that a lot of issues are tied to it. Maybe certain textures have to register in a way so the scripts the game runs natively can execute properly. But that's way over my head, can only share observations. Those script names are pretty interesting. I just used that same clean Chapter 2 savedata from Nexus, deleted my mods and purged my settings and API cache from the Documents folder. Voilà. Suddenly there are a gazillion animals everywhere, some of them I didn't even remember they were actually in the game lmao. I noticed different types of birds mixed up in the sky, and even saw a couple trains full of peds reaching Valentine's station while sitting there for a couple minutes, which is something downright impossible when using mods. Countless stagecoaches, peds, horses... the list goes on, and it was roughly a 15 minute test. The difference is crazy. Unless you are clinically blind it's just not possible this could fly over your head. There is maybe a 30% more wildlife when playing unmodded vs. modded. Edited May 15 by Sanah Quote
Saber23454 3 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 Im gonna keep following this thread until a fix can be found Quote
HarrietOrtega 9 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 Quote bcuz nobody's gonna manually write dirs to files or write scripts to pack 400 or more edited textures via replacement method. Erm, I spent the last two weeks doin exactlt that for all the texture mods i use.That's "terrain textures overhaul" "4k arthur" "4k Dutch" all of wicked horsemans upscales, the wrinkle masks, 4k side chacters ans two 2k gang texture mods and the Upscaled work from garbageman something something. I took on this mammout taske because I came across this thread and link to it while reading the comments on the comments board. So I tested this out and confirmed this problem exists. So I took all the upscale mods from garbageman (sorry if i'm getting his handle wrong) plus the upscaled animals AIO and hato do a very long process of finding what files from each archive were changed. Aparticular problem occurs when the file needs to be replaced to a differebt archive because of an update. All of these problems don't exist when you just stream the file but that doens'y give you jack*** to go on if you have hundreds of files in one folder that has no logical file structure as to what files are in which rpf archive. The added benefit of using the replacement method instead of streaming is for bug checking. Yesterday I spen 16 hours isolating a crash from a texture mod that was absolutely reproducible. It would crash in the same spot all the time. If I didn't restructure that authors mod, I would of never have been able to isolate that crash down to one specific file, confirm it and remove it, that was all possible because I had files logically seperated into folders named to their corresponding rpf archives...so when it came to trouble shooting, I could strip away chunks of folders at a time and if no crash happened, rinse and repeat until it does. then take that specific chunk and whittle it down until I find the folder causing the crash, then go through the files and isolate the one causing issues. So there are pleople crazy enough to do that but I'm autistic and have adhd...plus my dad was a computer engineer and I've had goo practice for programming and developing stuff on the pc that logical, organised file structures never do any harm but if you don't/can't be bothered to do that, you will have nightmares finding bugs. Anyway, sermon over. So I confirmed the issue you've all been talking about and after I sorted all texture mods into proper file structures with the method of replacement being FileReplacements instead of streaming...the aambient world seems to have go back to vanilla for me, I saaw a train pull up randomly at night and I legged it over to find passengers inside, I'm also hearing trains in the distance which I don't think was happening before, and lots of othe random events. Also a bonus that should be mention. Since changin the method of file loading, I no longer get choppy stutters, framerates and pop ins/lod issues and this is with a 4090) and there was an instant 90%~ reduction of crashs. It's quite simple for that, streaming loads everything into the game at once whther is specifically needed or not, file replacement onlt fetchs the text when it's needed...it's very clever the way LML can do this and now I realise that about streaming , like 5000 billion 4k textures into the game and keeping them irregardless of it's needed in the scene or not, will murder the game engine and FFFFFFF your game into oblivion. I decided to contact garbageman on Nexus and tell him about this and that if he wanted to have it and share it on his mod page for others, so he doesn't have to do all that insane work, he's more that welcome. He's got the link to the file but whether he uses it is up to him. Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 15 Posted May 15 (edited) It's kind of funny and sad at the same time but most of you just don't seem to understand this is not caused solely by streaming 4K texture mods into LML. On the other hand, I honestly can't recall this game ever crashing on me. Crashes and FFFF errors can be related to .asi scripts and LML but they are surely not related to how the spawning system works, so I don't know what you are trying to say. LOD, geometry, pop-in and stutter issues were mostly introduced by The Naturalist update, all the way back to 2020, though they were always present and there's proof of that out there-- very easy to look it up online. Some people say those problems I just mentioned have been aggravated since the last title update, but after lots of testing on three different game versions I haven't seen anything notably different between them in that regard. Like I said, they were always present. Older versions of LML did cause some stuttering on HDDs but that's about it. Anyway, glad to see other people are noticing these issues; it's better late than never. Still hoping for a solution. Edited May 15 by Sanah 1 Quote
riley5737 2 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 I've spent the last day and a half testing proposed solutions and trying to identify what specifically causes these spawning issues (when using texture mods). Unfortunately I've found no solution however have been able to confirm a few things which hopefully are helpful so someone else looking into this issue. Both LML file streaming and file replacement can cause this issue. Only using mods that solely use the file replacement method does not fix ped spawning issues. Using file streaming does not fix either. Using either the Replace/Stream load method does not seem to be the root cause and will not fix. Though I'm not saying how LML is actually loading these files is not to blame - it seems possible that how LML is operating could be causing this issue, or LML may be able to provide a fix/workaround. Reasoning: The following mods that only use File Replacement caused heavily reduced ped spawning. Using one or two at a time would result in seemingly normal ped spawning (same as when no mods are installed). - WickedHorseMan UpscaledProps Windows - WickedHorseMan UpscaledAnimals Birds - WickedHorseMan UpscaledAnimals Reptiles - WickedHorseMan UpscaledAnimals Mammals The following mods that only use File Streaming caused heavily reduced ped spawning. Using one or two at a time would result in seemingly normal ped spawning (same as when no mods are installed). - Instanity 4k Characters - Nigeez TerrainTexturesOverhaul - Energi HigherResolutionVegetation More info on streaming vs replacing on the LML mod page description (at the end). Repacking textures into File Replacement Directories (LML 'replace' folder) does not fix this issue. Reasoning: I took the time to repack each and every one of the above mods + a few others into the LML 'replace' folder under their correct file directories found in OpenIV. The mods all worked (mods loaded correctly), however this still caused heavily reduced ped spawning (same as before I repacked). LML mods all either stream or replace files. The method used is specified in the mod's install.xml file. The stream and replace subfolders load via the same method as mods with their own subfolders (mods not installed into the stream or replace folder). It's just a different mod installation method... so basically the result should be no different - files are loaded into game via the same method. It makes no sense that repacking will make a difference. This issue may be caused by a pool or video memory limit. Reasoning: When I was using any single mod on it's own, ped spawning would always appear to be normal. It was only when I used several that ped spawning would reduce. For example: Cazanu Improvements In Blood + Cazanu Upscaled Gore Textures + Instanity 4k Characters Resulted in reduced ped spawning. Cazanu Improvements In Blood + Instanity 4k Characters Resulted in normal ped spawning. Even adding AClassySliceOfToast Arthur's Gunslinger Jacket resulted in normal behaviour. However, then adding WickedHorseMan UpscaledProps Windows caused reduced ped spawing (but it worked when used alone). It seems that RDR2 has an extremely large amount of different memory and pool limits on several parts of the game (according to internal files such as gameconfig.xml). Using different combinations of few mods at a time seemed to work reliably. So, it seems possible there is some kind of pool limit being hit when certain mods are used. It could also potentially could be a video memory limit (limited by game - not hardware). This could be investigated further. Note that changing gameconfig.xml limits (ped pools, memory limits) did not seem to change anything. I tried many different logical values on variables that sounded like they would have some impact however never found any change in game. (And yes, the gameconfig.xml file was installed correctly, though I couldn't completely verify it loaded). I set memory limits significantly higher than stock - up to the maximum my hardware would be able to physically support (20480MB VRAM hardware limit). All ped pools were almost doubled. No noticeable change of any kind. There is an excess of different gameconfig.xml files on Nexus that claim to help with memory and spawning issues, though I've seen no one actually confirm any have helped anything besides stuttering issues. So I'm led to believe this is either an issue caused my how LML loads files in RDR2, or it is a pool limit or a memory limit (I think less probable). I think there's at least a little to go on here. The memory and pool limits should be narrowed down further. I might spend more time on this later, however for now I'm going to just play with very few essential texture mods. Game looks great anyway 🙂 Additionally, if somehow the LML devs could be made aware of this issue then it's likely they may know of a potential cause/fix. Also, If you're wondering how I was testing if the ped spawning issue was present: I had one of my save files that would spawn a train outside Valentine upon load. This would either be immediately visible with passengers + wildlife, civilians walking/on horses or there would only be a few civilians riding horses + nothing else. I would reload the game a second time, every time, to verify. tldr: LML loading method makes no difference whatsoever - ped spawning issue is likely an RDR2 pool or memory limit or an issue with LML. 2 Quote
HarrietOrtega 9 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 33 minutes ago, riley5737 said: I've spent the last day and a half testing proposed solutions and trying to identify what specifically causes these spawning issues (when using texture mods). Unfortunately I've found no solution however have been able to confirm a few things which hopefully are helpful so someone else looking into this issue. Both LML file streaming and file replacement can cause this issue. Only using mods that solely use the file replacement method does not fix ped spawning issues. Using file streaming does not fix either. Using either the Replace/Stream load method does not seem to be the root cause and will not fix. Though I'm not saying how LML is actually loading these files is not to blame - it seems possible that how LML is operating could be causing this issue, or LML may be able to provide a fix/workaround. Reasoning: The following mods that only use File Replacement caused heavily reduced ped spawning. Using one or two at a time would result in seemingly normal ped spawning (same as when no mods are installed). - WickedHorseMan UpscaledProps Windows - WickedHorseMan UpscaledAnimals Birds - WickedHorseMan UpscaledAnimals Reptiles - WickedHorseMan UpscaledAnimals Mammals The following mods that only use File Streaming caused heavily reduced ped spawning. Using one or two at a time would result in seemingly normal ped spawning (same as when no mods are installed). - Instanity 4k Characters - Nigeez TerrainTexturesOverhaul - Energi HigherResolutionVegetation More info on streaming vs replacing on the LML mod page description (at the end). Repacking textures into File Replacement Directories (LML 'replace' folder) does not fix this issue. Reasoning: I took the time to repack each and every one of the above mods + a few others into the LML 'replace' folder under their correct file directories found in OpenIV. The mods all worked (mods loaded correctly), however this still caused heavily reduced ped spawning (same as before I repacked). LML mods all either stream or replace files. The method used is specified in the mod's install.xml file. The stream and replace subfolders load via the same method as mods with their own subfolders (mods not installed into the stream or replace folder). It's just a different mod installation method... so basically the result should be no different - files are loaded into game via the same method. It makes no sense that repacking will make a difference. This issue may be caused by a pool or video memory limit. Reasoning: When I was using any single mod on it's own, ped spawning would always appear to be normal. It was only when I used several that ped spawning would reduce. For example: Cazanu Improvements In Blood + Cazanu Upscaled Gore Textures + Instanity 4k Characters Resulted in reduced ped spawning. Cazanu Improvements In Blood + Instanity 4k Characters Resulted in normal ped spawning. Even adding AClassySliceOfToast Arthur's Gunslinger Jacket resulted in normal behaviour. However, then adding WickedHorseMan UpscaledProps Windows caused reduced ped spawing (but it worked when used alone). It seems that RDR2 has an extremely large amount of different memory and pool limits on several parts of the game (according to internal files such as gameconfig.xml). Using different combinations of few mods at a time seemed to work reliably. So, it seems possible there is some kind of pool limit being hit when certain mods are used. It could also potentially could be a video memory limit (limited by game - not hardware). This could be investigated further. Note that changing gameconfig.xml limits (ped pools, memory limits) did not seem to change anything. I tried many different logical values on variables that sounded like they would have some impact however never found any change in game. (And yes, the gameconfig.xml file was installed correctly, though I couldn't completely verify it loaded). I set memory limits significantly higher than stock - up to the maximum my hardware would be able to physically support (20480MB VRAM hardware limit). All ped pools were almost doubled. No noticeable change of any kind. There is an excess of different gameconfig.xml files on Nexus that claim to help with memory and spawning issues, though I've seen no one actually confirm any have helped anything besides stuttering issues. So I'm led to believe this is either an issue caused my how LML loads files in RDR2, or it is a pool limit or a memory limit (I think less probable). I think there's at least a little to go on here. The memory and pool limits should be narrowed down further. I might spend more time on this later, however for now I'm going to just play with very few essential texture mods. Game looks great anyway 🙂 Additionally, if somehow the LML devs could be made aware of this issue then it's likely they may know of a potential cause/fix. Also, If you're wondering how I was testing if the ped spawning issue was present: I had one of my save files that would spawn a train outside Valentine upon load. This would either be immediately visible with passengers + wildlife, civilians walking/on horses or there would only be a few civilians riding horses + nothing else. I would reload the game a second time, every time, to verify. tldr: LML loading method makes no difference whatsoever - ped spawning issue is likely an RDR2 pool or memory limit or an issue with LML. Just FYI, have you noticed the size of the files in wickedhorsemans mods? almost 50mb for each ytd file, plus all the *+hi files have 0 bytes. When I was sorting out that mod and the others, I was quite confused to say the least. However, to what you've said. I don't seem to have any of the issues you have described, the only difference is with the method...and I'm very inclined to think that the replace folder in LML works slightly differently than explicit fileReplacement with the install.xml because I experienced all the above when using the stream method and the replace folder. I mean, it's even possible that fileReplacement works slightly differently to fileReplacements, I don't know. I suppose the only one who can really answer that is the LML developer themselves. 1 Quote
kaozzz777 18 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 (edited) Quote Note that changing gameconfig.xml limits (ped pools, memory limits) did not seem to change anything. I'm also experimenting with it. Other than getting a slight performance boost using dev values for <aiTextureMaxMem>, other stuff doesn't appear to change much. Tried suggested values by dominatorGT on nexus comments. Anyhow, there are dozens of entries for pools sizes alone, textures and scripts(!), and who knows where else definitions might be set besides gameconfig.xml. They are all intertwined and entities have to register properly in the game engine while considering pool sizes. Edited May 17 by kaozzz777 1 Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, kaozzz777 said: Can't understand why no one here is including .asi scripts in their tests and isolating them despite all our efforts in encouraging so. LML is more than likely not the culprit. As stated a few dozen times on here by various users, installing multiple .asi scripts at once (sometimes more, sometimes less; as this is not as consistent as you think it is) introduces problems with train spawns. Wildlife and pedestrians should be the last thing to be looking at. Lots of users have already tried messing with gameconfig and ped pools for months to absolutely no avail. I must point you -again- to Dagger323's instructions as to how to do proper troubleshooting when testing train spawns. It is tedious, yes. It is very time consuming, yes-- but it's the most foolproof and consistent method we have. You can follow the steps with or without Railroad Engineer 2.5, both ways work. Following those is currently the only way to identify .asi scripts as contributors to these issues (regarding trains that is). For animals, trams and NPCs there is another good method in this thread, involving Saint Denis and roseate spoonbill spawns. Please, go take a look and read throroughfully. Most if not all the things you have been saying have already been tested. I know you all want your texture mods to work but those are not the root of the problem. Edited May 17 by Sanah 1 Quote
HarrietOrtega 9 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 6 minutes ago, Sanah said: Can't understand why no one here is including .asi scripts in their tests and isolating them despite all our efforts in encouraging so. LML is more than likely not the culprit. As stated a few dozen times on here by various users, installing multiple .asi scripts at once (sometimes more, sometimes less; as this is not as consistent as you think it is) introduces problems with train spawns. Wildlife and pedestrians should be the last thing to be looking at. Lots of users have already tried messing with gameconfig and ped pools for months to absolutely no avail. I must point you -again- to Dagger323's instructions as to how to do proper troubleshooting when testing train spawns. It is tedious, yes. It is very time consuming, yes-- but it's the most foolproof and consistent method we have. You can follow the steps with or without Railroad Engineer 2.5, both ways work. Following those is currently the only way to identify .asi scripts as contributors to these issues (regarding trains that is). For animals, trams and NPCs there is another good method in this thread, involving Saint Denis and roseate spoonbill spawns. Please, go take a look and read throroughfully. Most if not all the things you have been saying have already been tested. I know you all want your texture mods to work but those are not the root of the problem. Actually, I did do exactly that when I came across this thread and discovered my game had this issue. I stripped it bare and loaded everything one by one, loaded a save etc etc. For me .asi scripts have nothing to do with this issue and even with the spoonbills test, st.Denis trams were empty along with all other issues reported in this thread. When I redid the texture mod dir's and install.xmls, the issue doens't seem to be present for me anymore but that's just my system, I can't speak for others. Also, to be extra vigilant, I deleted my save games incase there were "footprints" on it left by mods I removed and started a whole new game fresh for troubleshooting. Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 (edited) Thank you for noticing, because I'm pretty sure it's crucial to delete those savedata files in which mods have been loaded and used. I even reinstalled Windows in one of my systems just to do some fresh testings and it didn't matter what resolution I used, the same problems were present. Tried three different GPUs and, again, the same problems were present. I hardly think this has to do with VRAM limitations like some users have said. After following Dagger's guides I can see the game function -almost- perfectly when it comes to peds and animals, but no matter what I do and how many mods I uninstall, trains do not work as they should. To fix it I need to play practically modless. I can maybe throw a couple very simple .asi files, but that's about it. I wish I could speak just for myself but many others have pointed the same problem. It was pretty obvious the file replacement method was not going to be a solution for anything, as .asi scripts are also affected. Edited May 17 by Sanah 1 Quote
HarrietOrtega 9 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 Yeah it's definately a tricky one. I bought this game years ago and I've been messing with the files since day one. I've not even played the game a 1/3 of the way through because I'm constantly tinkering with it...but one thing I can say, I've been modding games since Unreal and Half-Life hit the scene and have seen a lot of game engines come and go...the rage engine and it's implementation is shocking to me. I've never had so many problems with an engine, it's completely unstable...beautiful but unstable. On several occassions I've just thought I might just delete it altogether because it's just been a trial of attrition to play more than 10 minutes without a crash. Quote
Sanah 17 Posted May 17 Posted May 17 I have the impression the game's code is being held together by ducktape. Not surprised though seeing how much dynamic stuff goes on; from sounds, animals minding their own business, stagecoaches passing by, trains, peds, a random encounter every minute... if you think about it it's pretty reasonable that everything goes literally nuts when you touch even the tiniest thing lmao Quote
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