modding HUGE Problem with Modding RDR2 That No One is Talking About

[JKL409 8]

15 minutes ago, TheWrath said:

Came here after being linked to on the Nexus site. I can confirm this bug with LML mods installed. Just removing 4K texture mods did not make any difference. Deleting my entire LML folder fixed it. I was able to quickly see people on the tram in St. Denis. Did not check for the roseate spoonbill spawn.  I do have why ems dlc installed is it possible that this is the culprit? It would be insane to uninstall my entire LML folder. Or has anyone found a work around?

Currently no workaround unfortunately... We're mostly just trying to get the word out there about this problem. 

 

It's highly likely WhyEms DLC is the culprit, or it would at least be one of the anyway. Using any kind of 4k texture mod however will break it, so don't put them back. 

[TheWrath 1]

3 hours ago, JKL409 said:

Currently no workaround unfortunately... We're mostly just trying to get the word out there about this problem. 

 

It's highly likely WhyEms DLC is the culprit, or it would at least be one of the anyway. Using any kind of 4k texture mod however will break it, so don't put them back. 

=[ Vanilla clothing is sooooo awful. Lowkey not worth removing. But I had removed whyem, and both my texture mods and the issue still persisted. I am lucky enough that my save spawns me in St. Denis right next to a tram so I have a quick test. I am sure I have other mods that edit some small textures. However I play at 1440p, even with Whyems and both texture mods removed this issue still persists. I still have other mods in my LML folder , but I do not have any other large multi item texture replacers. So I am wondering if there is something else going on.

Edited April 19 by TheWrath

[JKL409 8]

4 minutes ago, TheWrath said:

=[ Vanilla clothing is sooooo awful. Lowkey not worth removing. But I had removed whyem, and both my texture mods and the issue still persisted. I am lucky enough that my save spawns me in St. Denis right next to a tram so I have a quick test. I am sure I have other mods that edit some small textures. However I play at 1440p, even with Whyems and both texture mods removed this issue still persists. I still have other mods in my LML folder , but I do not have any other large multi item texture replacers. So I am wondering if there is something else going on.

Install one mod at a time and test, it's the only way to be sure. 

[MagmaMSR 0]

so.. is there a mod that I can play as Arthur in the epilogue that doesn't require lml?

[Dagger323 34]

This mod was just posted on Nexus and looks somewhat promising. I haven't had the chance to test it out yet for myself, but I encourage anyone in this thread to give it a try and report back any findings, positive or negative: An Experimental Game Config to Help with the pop-in and spawn issue at Red Dead Redemption 2 Nexus - Mods and community (nexusmods.com)

[TheWrath 1]

So after an hour of testing here is what I have found. The first image is files that cannot be loaded otherwise they cause the spawn bug. The spawns are fine with the second one.

 

If any of the mods in the first image are loaded the trams in St.Denis are empty.

 

Of course replace and stream can contain different things, but the spawns for me are bugged when I load them in with whatever I have in them. 

Edited April 21 by TheWrath

[Dagger323 34]

41 minutes ago, TheWrath said:

So after an hour of testing here is what I have found. The first image is files that cannot be loaded otherwise they cause the spawn bug. The spawns are fine with the second one.

 

If any of the mods in the first image are loaded the trams in St.Denis are empty.

 

Of course replace and stream can contain different things, but the spawns for me are bugged when I load them in with whatever I have in them. 

I don't have any spawning issue with Higher Resolution Vegetation, Red Dead Offline, and certain mods from WickedHorseMan (unless they're upscaling weapon textures like his Firearm Cosmetics mod). I also have many items in my stream folder that don't mess up the spawns either. My guess is that it's a matter of combining them with certain other problematic mods you're using. Have you tested each one individually? Also, please try out the mod I linked earlier and see if it helps with the spawning issue.

Edited April 21 by Dagger323

[TheWrath 1]

4 minutes ago, Dagger323 said:

I don't have any spawning issue with Higher Resolution Vegetation, Red Dead Offline, and certain mods from WickedHorseMan (unless they're upscaling weapon textures like his Firearm Cosmetics mod). I also have many items in my stream folder that don't mess up the spawns either. My guess is that it's a matter of combining them with certain other problematic mods you're using. Have you tested each one individually? Also, please try out the mod I linked earlier and see if it helps with the spawning issue.

I did try them each individually, I will try again. I heard that the resolution of the game also matters. There is a guy DominatorGT on the nexus that is crazy knowledgeable about the issue. He claims that he has fixed it by the way the install.xml mounts to the archives. But he is not clear to relay it to others. Also I did try that mod and no it did not fix the issue. I am going to test some more.

[TheWrath 1]

So Higher Resolution Vegetation is fine and wicked horsemans is fine minus the gun textures. But it really just seems like it is a random number of textures. For instance just removing WhyEms and red dead offline does not fix it for me.

[JKL409 8]

13 hours ago, TheWrath said:

I did try them each individually, I will try again. I heard that the resolution of the game also matters. There is a guy DominatorGT on the nexus that is crazy knowledgeable about the issue. He claims that he has fixed it by the way the install.xml mounts to the archives. But he is not clear to relay it to others. Also I did try that mod and no it did not fix the issue. I am going to test some more.

Are you able to send a link to this DominatorGT where he makes these claims? 

[TheWrath 1]

14 minutes ago, JKL409 said:

Are you able to send a link to this DominatorGT where he makes these claims? 

Sure here are the two links with really informative posts.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/3859?tab=posts

 

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/2189?tab=posts&BH=3

[JKL409 8]

15 minutes ago, TheWrath said:

Sure here are the two links with really informative posts.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/3859?tab=posts

 

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/2189?tab=posts&BH=3

So essentially... We NOW OFFICIALLY HAVE A FIX! We just don't know how to implement it... 

[TheWrath 1]

2 minutes ago, JKL409 said:

So essentially... We NOW OFFICIALLY HAVE A FIX! We just don't know how to implement it... 

Maybe, although this is one guy. It may only work with his mod load order. Also from what I can gather it seems really hard to implement. There are a lot of changes that must be made. I really wish there was a script extender for rdr2. Then we could potentially increase the games memory pool.

[Cratthorax 1]

In worst case scenario you guys been downloading 7,1GB of texture upscalers ultimatively breaking your game, and your solution to bypass the issues is forcing content creators to implement fishy workarounds?

 

Reshade and ENB both have texture filters/upscalers doing exactly the same as content creators using tools to upscale textures, only more efficient.

 

You actually don't even need Reshade or ENB and can go just perfectly well with inbuilt Nvidia and/or AMD filter setups, which are part of their tuning software. There's a set of quality shaders utilizing both, sharpeners and filters/upscalers, to improve texture quality with near zero impact on your performance.

Edited April 24 by Cratthorax

[TheWrath 1]

DominatorGT posted some new info on the mod you sent. Maybe that mod author can use the new values to adjust ped pool. I will see what he does with the new info. 

[JKL409 8]

2 hours ago, Cratthorax said:

In worst case scenario you guys been downloading 7,1GB of texture upscalers ultimatively breaking your game, and your solution to bypass the issues is forcing content creators to implement fishy workarounds?

 

Reshade and ENB both have texture filters/upscalers doing exactly the same as content creators using tools to upscale textures, only more efficient.

 

You actually don't even need Reshade or ENB and can go just perfectly well with inbuilt Nvidia and/or AMD filter setups, which are part of their tuning software. There's a set of quality shaders utilizing both, sharpeners and filters/upscalers, to improve texture quality with near zero impact on your performance.

How are we forcing content creators to create workarounds...? You realise just a single 4k upscale mod can break your game right..? And they don't list this anywhere on their modpages. At the least all we're trying to do is spread the word so people know what's going on, at best hopefully a modder or two with greater experience with the game engine will be able to advise us on a universal potential fix. 

[kaozzz777 18]

3 hours ago, Cratthorax said:

In worst case scenario you guys been downloading 7,1GB of texture upscalers ultimatively breaking your game, and your solution to bypass the issues is forcing content creators to implement fishy workarounds?

 

Reshade and ENB both have texture filters/upscalers doing exactly the same as content creators using tools to upscale textures, only more efficient.

 

You actually don't even need Reshade or ENB and can go just perfectly well with inbuilt Nvidia and/or AMD filter setups, which are part of their tuning software. There's a set of quality shaders utilizing both, sharpeners and filters/upscalers, to improve texture quality with near zero impact on your performance.

you failed to see the bigger picture here. This problem can also occur when you use mods inserting online stuff for example or scripts or edits to essential gameconfig files. We want to understand how to correctly mod the game so we can actually use all those great mods.
It's not about trying to load in 50gb of textures, it's about creating best practice on how to inject assests into the game without breaking the engine and it's systems. It's also not helpful with bunch of info being scattered around the internet (often outdated) and on a few hidden discords.

Edited April 24 by kaozzz777

[Dagger323 34]

4 hours ago, Cratthorax said:

In worst case scenario you guys been downloading 7,1GB of texture upscalers ultimatively breaking your game, and your solution to bypass the issues is forcing content creators to implement fishy workarounds?

 

Reshade and ENB both have texture filters/upscalers doing exactly the same as content creators using tools to upscale textures, only more efficient.

 

You actually don't even need Reshade or ENB and can go just perfectly well with inbuilt Nvidia and/or AMD filter setups, which are part of their tuning software. There's a set of quality shaders utilizing both, sharpeners and filters/upscalers, to improve texture quality with near zero impact on your performance.

What an utterly ignorant and unproductive response. One single mod, such as wickedhorseman's Firearm Cosmetics, marketed simply as making the weapon textures more realistic with historically accurate labeling, can and does totally break the spawns. It is not simply a matter of users loading in countless significant texture mods specifically aimed at upscaling textures.

 

It's also important to note that while some mods cause the issue, others do not. Since I began testing for this, I have loaded in several upscaled texture mods, which affect multiple gigabytes worth of texture files, that do not seem to have any significant effect on the spawns, while then loading in much smaller mods that conversely removed peds and wildlife instantaneously.

 

For example, neither the Higher Resolution Vegetation mod nor the Upscaled Vegetation mod seems to affect the spawns. Nor does both the Upscaled Terrain nor the Terrain Textures Overhaul mods. And loading several of them in at once also doesn't seem to cause a problem. Conversely, any increase of the game's LOD scale immediately causes the issue, as well as any of the wildlife upscalers, even if other upscalers are not present. This is not a one-size-fits-all problem, and each mod needs to be tested individually to check for workability.

 

Regardless, there are simply too many mods out there, including some of the most popular ones like WhyEm's DLC, JMRE, JMRP, and countless others that negatively impact the ped population, to simply dismiss it and blame users for breaking their own game. If the RDR2 modding scene is going to continue to have a future, then a solution absolutely needs to be found and implemented. Otherwise, about the only thing we're going to be able to continue modding is horse coat colors and animation bug fixes—and a vast number of currently available mods will need to be completely avoided—as any further improvements to the game's visuals or added content is likely to break the game world's population.

[TheWrath 1]

I really would not pay attention to him, it is clear he does not understand a few things about what is going on. Also I am not sure if the number of ytds plays any role. I have about 15 ytds in my lml folder. If I remove the stream folder I can see two peds on the tram. 

 

Now if I add back that stream folder and remove whyems dlc, which is hundreds of ytds. No peds will spawn. 

 

I still get the highest amount on the tram with both removed, about nine. 

 

I am not sure what the fuck is going on. 

[Dagger323 34]

1 hour ago, TheWrath said:

I really would not pay attention to him, it is clear he does not understand a few things about what is going on. Also I am not sure if the number of ytds plays any role. I have about 15 ytds in my lml folder. If I remove the stream folder I can see two peds on the tram. 

 

Now if I add back that stream folder and remove whyems dlc, which is hundreds of ytds. No peds will spawn. 

 

I still get the highest amount on the tram with both removed, about nine. 

 

I am not sure what the fuck is going on. 

I only replied to provide a rebuttal to the guy's comment for anyone else reading the thread. I frankly couldn't care less what his specific take on this is, as it's clear he is very uninformed about this entire topic.

 

Regarding your game's issues, I don't think the number of .ytd's is to blame so much as what those specific .ytd's are that might be affecting spawns. I have a total of 92 .ytd, .ymt, .yft, and .ydr files in my stream folder currently and I am able to see on average half a dozen peds on every tram (sometimes more, sometimes less). I also am currently using WhyEm's DLC but only equipping his custom horse saddles and none of the clothing (as that causes the spawning bug for me). If there's anything in your stream folder that is significantly increasing texture quality or affecting many peds then that might be the culprit.

[Cratthorax 1]

Sure it's a one size fits all problem. You guys just spend way to much time making things up an confusing anybody with it.

 

Some of the mods used wrong formats in their upscales in the past, then two updates came that recompiled the textures which you can easily identifie by reviewing the content archives. Some of the mods never updated, some did but only for the first update, and some mods use correct formatting. You can actually google the right format for their last update.

 

The same is true for the game executable btw. So stuff gets even more complicated, specially if native coders don't update their files. The only valid solution here is to not use those mods. And as a mod user you can only verifie which are save to use by trial and fail. So opening a highly speculative thread about some black magic going on doesn't serve any purpose but confusing users.

 

So in essence, everybody is confused about some weird "magic trick" happening in the background messing up their game, while in reality the users(no the authors) inexperience of correctly verifying the state of a mod, or its install procedure is the sole reason for your game breaking.

 

The only thing that really confuses me is this happens with a community modding the game for 5 years plus now. Also, the whole modding community relies on native injection, which usually needs some sophisticted skills in coding and reverse engineering the game files. And I don't think those people want to waste their time teaching you how to internet, computer, or mod a game.

 

To be fair, given it's "not supposed to be modded"-game state, and actually having to hack the engine makes it way more complicated for both, authors and users, but that doesn't omid the fact users should really get informed before wildly installing mods of different quantity and qualities.

[Dagger323 34]

11 hours ago, Cratthorax said:

Sure it's a one size fits all problem. You guys just spend way to much time making things up an confusing anybody with it.

 

Some of the mods used wrong formats in their upscales in the past, then two updates came that recompiled the textures which you can easily identifie by reviewing the content archives. Some of the mods never updated, some did but only for the first update, and some mods use correct formatting. You can actually google the right format for their last update.

 

The same is true for the game executable btw. So stuff gets even more complicated, specially if native coders don't update their files. The only valid solution here is to not use those mods. And as a mod user you can only verifie which are save to use by trial and fail. So opening a highly speculative thread about some black magic going on doesn't serve any purpose but confusing users.

 

So in essence, everybody is confused about some weird "magic trick" happening in the background messing up their game, while in reality the users(no the authors) inexperience of correctly verifying the state of a mod, or its install procedure is the sole reason for your game breaking.

 

The only thing that really confuses me is this happens with a community modding the game for 5 years plus now. Also, the whole modding community relies on native injection, which usually needs some sophisticted skills in coding and reverse engineering the game files. And I don't think those people want to waste their time teaching you how to internet, computer, or mod a game.

 

To be fair, given it's "not supposed to be modded"-game state, and actually having to hack the engine makes it way more complicated for both, authors and users, but that doesn't omid the fact users should really get informed before wildly installing mods of different quantity and qualities.

So let's get this straight: you claim that it's specifically a matter of mod authors using the wrong format in their files, yet you then turn right around and blame users for not automatically knowing about this when going to install them? Lol are you trying to not be taken seriously?? If users aren't made aware of this supposed issue, and don't know to look for it, how precisely are they to blame for not realizing it and researching it outside of reading your extremely snarky and patronizing comments?
 

I don't believe this thread is nearly as useless as you claim it is, because it is definitely getting this subject attention and discussion, and in fact has alerted many to the problem in the first place given that they admitted to being totally unaware of the spawning issues until they came upon this post. Ultimately the goal of this thread is to enable a better understanding of what's going on by inviting more knowledgeable individuals to share what they know with the community. But in your case, you seem far more interested in being arrogant and condescending and ridiculing the "peons" than actually helping people out.
 

I still don't concede that your answer is necessarily the definitive explanation here given that I have downloaded other upscale mods released quite recently, all made by the same mod author, that do supposedly use the "correct" format, are not using streaming files, and still spawning issues have persisted with them — though inconsistently, as it is also the case there that some cause spawning issues while others cause less or none. And according to what dominatorgt stated on the Terrain Textures Overhaul mod, that mod itself is supposedly not being loaded correctly to avert the spawning bug, yet that is a mod I have thoroughly tested for months and am having no noticeable problems with it. That would seem to refute your claims and support my statement previously that this is not a one-size-fits-all issue. So until someone with less of an attitude and more of an ability and willingness to elaborate chimes in with actual useful and productive information, I'm going to remain skeptical. But you can keep acting like the pseudo know-it-all armchair expert that you think you are. Just don't expect people to listen to you and your sour disposition when all you do is ridicule everyone.

Edited April 26 by Dagger323

[Cratthorax 1]

I don't claim, I know for sure. And you've been going quite a long distance to prove my point.

 

I never said textures are exclusivley responsible in regard to your issues. I also never said that authors were deliberately using wrong formatting in creating their upscales. What I in essence said, is that mod authors created mods in the past that are no longer updated/maintained and/or broke the game in its initial state, and that the nature of how you have to actually create mods for the game makes it challenging difficult for anyone involved to pinpoint issues, or let alone fix them. And ontop of that the major issues is, that Rockstar kept updating their game and reformatting a lot of their textures and code which has never been addresed by authors in their mods.

 

I'm too much of an experienced user and author to respond to any other of your nonsense, because I also know for sure that "I did that, and tested that, and someone said that so it must be true" isn't a vlaid argument at all. If your game's still messed up you appearantly do something wrong that an author can't address.

 

I don't blame you. It took me two weeks to create a perfectly stable game given Rockstar screwed up a lot of mods with their updates in the past. But I'm certainly not going to create a "wall of shame avoid mod"-post to spare you the inconvenience of forwarding your own trial and fail.

 

But one thing I can say for sure. It's probably a good idea to avoid upscalers alltogether. You're welcome. 

[tuesday 1]

Brother a legend has found a way to fix it, his name is dominatorgt on Nexusmods. Read his comments on some mods like terrain upscaler, animal upscaler and that all-in-one texture upscaler by garbageman (that's his name)

[JKL409 8]

3 hours ago, tuesday said:

Brother a legend has found a way to fix it, his name is dominatorgt on Nexusmods. Read his comments on some mods like terrain upscaler, animal upscaler and that all-in-one texture upscaler by garbageman (that's his name)

Can you actually post a link to these comments, otherwise it makes it difficult to ascertain the validity of what you're saying.