modding HUGE Problem with Modding RDR2 That No One is Talking About

[JKL409 7]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:37 AM, Dagger323 said:

So let's get this straight: you claim that it's specifically a matter of mod authors using the wrong format in their files, yet you then turn right around and blame users for not automatically knowing about this when going to install them? Lol are you trying to not be taken seriously?? If users aren't made aware of this supposed issue, and don't know to look for it, how precisely are they to blame for not realizing it and researching it outside of reading your extremely snarky and patronizing comments?
 

I don't believe this thread is nearly as useless as you claim it is, because it is definitely getting this subject attention and discussion, and in fact has alerted many to the problem in the first place given that they admitted to being totally unaware of the spawning issues until they came upon this post. Ultimately the goal of this thread is to enable a better understanding of what's going on by inviting more knowledgeable individuals to share what they know with the community. But in your case, you seem far more interested in being arrogant and condescending and ridiculing the "peons" than actually helping people out.
 

I still don't concede that your answer is necessarily the definitive explanation here given that I have downloaded other upscale mods released quite recently, all made by the same mod author, that do supposedly use the "correct" format, are not using streaming files, and still spawning issues have persisted with them — though inconsistently, as it is also the case there that some cause spawning issues while others cause less or none. And according to what dominatorgt stated on the Terrain Textures Overhaul mod, that mod itself is supposedly not being loaded correctly to avert the spawning bug, yet that is a mod I have thoroughly tested for months and am having no noticeable problems with it. That would seem to refute your claims and support my statement previously that this is not a one-size-fits-all issue. So until someone with less of an attitude and more of an ability and willingness to elaborate chimes in with actual useful and productive information, I'm going to remain skeptical. But you can keep acting like the pseudo know-it-all armchair expert that you think you are. Just don't expect people to listen to you and your sour disposition when all you do is ridicule everyone.

You state that mod is, " not being loaded correctly to avert the spawning bug". And that, "it works" so that would indicate what Cratthorax is saying is in fact right? 

[Dagger323 32]

12 hours ago, JKL409 said:

You state that mod is, " not being loaded correctly to avert the spawning bug". And that, "it works" so that would indicate what Cratthorax is saying is in fact right? 

No. I think you misunderstood what I said. DominatorGT is the one who stated in the comments section of that mod (Terrain Textures Overhaul) that it has an incorrect loading method due to the fact that it uses streaming files, and according to him, mods that use streaming files are the culprit behind the spawning bug. That mod has not been updated to use the alternate method that DominatorGT suggested, which supposedly averts the spawning issue, yet from the countless hours I've spent testing it, spawns are mostly if not entirely unaffected by it even in its current state. It includes multiple gigabytes worth of environmental texture files, which surround every main story area in the game, yet spawns seem fine with it installed. Conversely, messing with the textures on one single gun, such as the cattleman revolver, by using a mod like Firearm Cosmetics, completely annihilates the NPC and wildlife population. Both mods use streaming files; one mod has well over 7 GBs worth of texture files and doesn't seem to affect spawns at all, while the other uses less than 100 MBs and immediately destroys the spawns. So I don't see how it can possibly be passed off as a cut and dry issue, and thus I don't see how our condescending know-it-all friend Mr. Cratthorax is correct in his assertion. Hopefully that helps clear up my previous comment. I haven't had time to read and respond to Cratthorax's latest reply yet but I'll get around to that at some point later.

Edited April 28 by Dagger323

[JKL409 7]

10 hours ago, Cratthorax said:

I don't claim, I know for sure. And you've been going quite a long distance to prove my point.

 

I never said textures are exclusivley responsible in regard to your issues. I also never said that authors were deliberately using wrong formatting in creating their upscales. What I in essence said, is that mod authors created mods in the past that are no longer updated/maintained and/or broke the game in its initial state, and that the nature of how you have to actually create mods for the game makes it challenging difficult for anyone involved to pinpoint issues, or let alone fix them. And ontop of that the major issues is, that Rockstar kept updating their game and reformatting a lot of their textures and code which has never been addresed by authors in their mods.

 

I'm too much of an experienced user and author to respond to any other of your nonsense, because I also know for sure that "I did that, and tested that, and someone said that so it must be true" isn't a vlaid argument at all. If your game's still messed up you appearantly do something wrong that an author can't address.

 

I don't blame you. It took me two weeks to create a perfectly stable game given Rockstar screwed up a lot of mods with their updates in the past. But I'm certainly not going to create a "wall of shame avoid mod"-post to spare you the inconvenience of forwarding your own trial and fail.

 

But one thing I can say for sure. It's probably a good idea to avoid upscalers alltogether. You're welcome. 

You seem to think we're trying to create a witch hunt against mod creators, at least I think that's what your asserting, although to be honest I'm finding quite it hard to understand what your overall point actually is, "besides we're all just unknowledgable idiots!..". 

 

This threads purpose is simply to warn people of this issue, investigate it further and attempt to find an overarching solution. 

[betterdeadthanredemption 0]

i have mods for online content and other stuff in single player but there are still a ton of peds.
 

before the world was so dead there were no birds and trains were empty but then i started using vestigia (250 peds version for dynamic seasons) and it changes game config to increase ped count. the game is so great now. hopefully this works for other people too and it wasnt just me that got lucky.

[tuesday 1]

17 hours ago, JKL409 said:

Can you actually post a link to these comments, otherwise it makes it difficult to ascertain the validity of what you're saying. 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/2189?tab=posts

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/3805?tab=posts
https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/3859?tab=posts

The 3rd one, Upscaled Animals AIO has already applied his file replacement idea and it was successful

[Gumb012 2]

1 hour ago, tuesday said:

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/2189?tab=posts

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/3805?tab=posts
https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/3859?tab=posts

The 3rd one, Upscaled Animals AIO has already applied his file replacement idea and it was successful

I've been using Upscaled Animals AIO since the file replacement update and it works for me. I'm using all/most of his upscales that use file replacement now, as well as a combination of Upscaled Terrain and Terrain Textures Overhaul using the instructions and install file that dominatorgt provided in one of his comments in the Terrain Textures Overhaul post section. I skipped the registers, jail and prop windows part of his instructions and deleted that section from the install file for now though.

 

Part of his instructions include increasing certain pools in your gameconfig.xml. These pools have been increased in the mod linked below which has been linked previously in this thread. They're not increased to the exact numbers that dominatorgt suggested, but they're close and seem to work well enough for now. The author said he'll potentially update it with dominatorgt's full recommendations after some testing. FYI I tried this mod when it was first linked here, and it did allow me to at least use one file in my stream folder that previously affected spawns. It was the rpg_textures.ytd from Basic Needs Final Cut in case anyone is interested. It didn't fix spawning for all mods by itself but it seems to partially contribute to the solution at least.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/3948

Edited April 28 by Gumb012
Added missing info and fixed typos

[Dagger323 32]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:47 PM, Cratthorax said:

I don't claim, I know for sure. And you've been going quite a long distance to prove my point.

 

I never said textures are exclusivley responsible in regard to your issues. I also never said that authors were deliberately using wrong formatting in creating their upscales. What I in essence said, is that mod authors created mods in the past that are no longer updated/maintained and/or broke the game in its initial state, and that the nature of how you have to actually create mods for the game makes it challenging difficult for anyone involved to pinpoint issues, or let alone fix them. And ontop of that the major issues is, that Rockstar kept updating their game and reformatting a lot of their textures and code which has never been addresed by authors in their mods.

 

I'm too much of an experienced user and author to respond to any other of your nonsense, because I also know for sure that "I did that, and tested that, and someone said that so it must be true" isn't a vlaid argument at all. If your game's still messed up you appearantly do something wrong that an author can't address.

 

I don't blame you. It took me two weeks to create a perfectly stable game given Rockstar screwed up a lot of mods with their updates in the past. But I'm certainly not going to create a "wall of shame avoid mod"-post to spare you the inconvenience of forwarding your own trial and fail.

 

But one thing I can say for sure. It's probably a good idea to avoid upscalers alltogether. You're welcome. 

As I thought, you've replied once again with yet another unproductive response that doesn't actually contribute anything. You claiming you "know for sure" is still you making a claim. It doesn't become fact until it's proven. And I have no reason to take you at your word without something more substantial than vague empty remarks to back up what you're saying. I have even less of a reason to believe you when you immediately jumped to insulting me and others in this thread right off the bat. Which proves you're here more out of some desperate need to assert your superiority than to actually help anybody out.
 

No, I never proved your point at all. In fact, I provided a very apt example that challenges your claim, yet in your apparent conceit you completely discredited and disregarded my anecdote while at the same time expecting me to automatically trust yours just because you say so. Lmao.

 

What you in essence did was indicate that it was incorrectly formatted mods on the part of mod authors that were causing the spawning bugs—whether intentional or not is beside the point—and then you turned around and blamed users directly for somehow not being automatically aware of this problem before even experiencing the bug or being informed that it was happening. To top it off, you then called my thread useless despite the fact that prior to me posting this, there was virtually zero information about this spawning bug to be found anywhere.

 

Once again, this is a matter of the pot calling the kettle black. You claim my anecdotes regarding testing certain mods hold no weight yet expect me to trust your anecdotes because of nothing more than your self-proclaimed experience and expertise. Sorry, I'm going to stand by my own personal experiences testing. I know factually that the mods that I said work do in fact work and the ones that I said don't work do not...because I have tested them. I don't need you to try and tell me that my perception of what I am literally witnessing happening in my own game is false just because it may conflict with some theory you have.

 

Which leads me to another point: you seem to be under some delusion that no one here has gone to the trouble of testing mods through trial and error. Which means either you didn't actually read this thread at all, or you didn't comprehend it if you did. Do you not realize that nearly everyone in this thread has been testing for problematic mods since finding out about this issue? As soon as we discovered there was a conflict with spawns, we began checking to see which specific mods were causing it and needed to be removed. We've been doing that the entire time. You're not telling us anything we don't already know and haven't already done.

 

Further, given how widespread this spawning bug evidently is across some of the most widely used mods in the game (WhyEm's, JMRE, JMRP, numerous visual mods, LOD scale enhancements, added online content, etc.), simply telling users, "Just don't use those mods," is not a solution, it is in fact the complete avoidance of a solution. That's like a software developer telling users experiencing crashes, "Well, just avoid using the program," rather than making any attempt to figure out and solve the problem. Which would be fine if the ultimate goal was strictly to achieve complete game stability. If that was what my goal was, I would just stop modding the game altogether and I never would have created this thread. But if you bothered to read, my goal was evident right from my initial post: to make the game stable with mods. I want to find out what precisely is causing this bug, and what, if anything, can be done to solve it and allow currently problematic mods that people enjoy to be used again without breaking immersive aspects of the game.

 

I'm not on some witch hunt to crucify mod authors. I'm not even suggesting the bug itself is their doing and their fault. But I do believe that creators currently releasing and updating mods have a responsibility to at least help inform users of this problem when their files do in fact cause the bug to occur instead of just frivolously releasing mods without any disclaimers or even testing for this problem. Ultimately, I'm trying to get this issue more exposure so that the modding community will work together to hopefully resolve it or at the bare minimum figure out how to avoid it in future mod releases. But your patronizing attitude in comments like "no one wants to waste time teaching you how to internet, computer, or mod a game" and generic, above-water suggestions like "test through trial and fail" and "just don't use bad mods" (yeah, no s**t) are totally unhelpful, unwarranted and unwanted. And if that's essentially all you have to contribute to this discussion, then please don't bother wasting your or anyone else's time with any more of it.

Edited April 29 by Dagger323

[Dagger323 32]

9 hours ago, betterdeadthanredemption said:

i have mods for online content and other stuff in single player but there are still a ton of peds.
 

before the world was so dead there were no birds and trains were empty but then i started using vestigia (250 peds version for dynamic seasons) and it changes game config to increase ped count. the game is so great now. hopefully this works for other people too and it wasnt just me that got lucky.

I have used the "Ped Limit Increase From 150 to 255" mod from Nexus before but noticed no improvement if the spawning issue is already present. My theory is that the game is not actually reaching a ped limit, but certain mods are affecting textures in such a way that the game is pulling back on peds to accommodate those textures. I'll try that game config though and see if it helps, but I'm not going to count on it.

[Dagger323 32]

4 hours ago, Gumb012 said:

I've been using Upscaled Animals AIO since the file replacement update and it works for me. I'm using all/most of his upscales that use file replacement now, as well as a combination of Upscaled Terrain and Terrain Textures Overhaul using the instructions and install file that dominatorgt provided in one of his comments in the Terrain Textures Overhaul post section. I skipped the registers, jail and prop windows part of his instructions and deleted that section from the install file for now though.

 

Part of his instructions include increasing certain pools in your gameconfig.xml. These pools have been increased in the mod linked below which has been linked previously in this thread. They're not increased to the exact numbers that dominatorgt suggested, but they're close and seem to work well enough for now. The author said he'll potentially update it with dominatorgt's full recommendations after some testing. FYI I tried this mod when it was first linked here, and it did allow me to at least use one file in my stream folder that previously affected spawns. It was the rpg_textures.ytd from Basic Needs Final Cut in case anyone is interested. It didn't fix spawning for all mods by itself but it seems to partially contribute to the solution at least.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/reddeadredemption2/mods/3948

Thanks for the info. I have tried, albeit briefly, the Upscaled Animals AIO after garbageman42069 changed it to a file replacement format but I immediately noticed that it caused peds to not spawn in on trains until after I was standing near the train for about forty seconds. Without it the peds spawned in normally. It did seem to be somewhat of an improvement though over the previous file streaming version, as that completely eliminated passengers and reduced wildlife. I haven't gotten around to reinstalling the terrain mods with dominatorgt's method yet but I'll be testing that later. The terrain textures mods don't seem to cause me any spawning issues though even in their current state despite using streaming files and despite affecting such a large number of textures, so I find that very curious.

Edited April 28 by Dagger323

[Gumb012 2]

1 hour ago, Dagger323 said:

Thanks for the info. I have tried, albeit briefly, the Upscaled Animals AIO after garbageman42069 changed it to a file replacement format but I immediately noticed that it caused peds to not spawn in on trains until after I was standing near the train for about forty seconds. Without it the peds spawned in normally. It did seem to be somewhat of an improvement though over the previous file streaming version, as that completely eliminated passengers and reduced wildlife. I haven't gotten around to reinstalling the terrain mods with dominatorgt's method yet but I'll be testing that later. The terrain textures mods don't seem to cause me any spawning issues though even in their current state despite using steaming files and despite affecting such a large number of textures, so I find that very curious.

Hey no problem. I've noticed some inconsistency with using trains to test these mods. For example, after first installing Animals AIO the trains seemed to not be spawning. I felt unsure about this so I went to St Denis and there were people on the trams. I then slept in-game until the next morning and trains were spawning fine again and with passengers.

 

I also came across a situation today in which a train seemed to go past my position without spawning (I'm using Railway Engineer to view their icons on the map and radar) and then when it was further past me its icon indicated that it spawned, so I caught up to it and it was indeed driving along the tracks and with passengers.

 

Later on I'll try to view them from a distance more to see if they have peds without being up close to them as you mention. At this point though, if trains are generally working, wildlife is good and people are on trams etc. then I'm considering it working enough to use the mods. I'll take an occasional oddity with a train over not using the mods given the visual improvement they provide, though I'll still be avoiding any that consistently reduce/break spawns.

 

You're right about this all being confusing and it's difficult to find consistent findings - especially with different people having different experiences based on their systems/settings etc. I do think dominatorgt is onto something though. He seems to have solved these issues for his own game, and the conversations he's started on nexus have been the  best public resources I've come across so far for shedding some light on this from a technical standpoint. His posts can be difficult to understand as they're quite technical and he's using a language translator, but it feels like it's being pieced together and I think this will continue to develop. It seems to be a bit of a work in progress, but at least it's being actively looked at by multiple people with more coding knowledge. One interesting point is that he apparently uses one custom install file for all/a lot of his mods. His terrain instructions that I mentioned before also included using one install file for multiple mods so I'll be interested to learn more about that and how to put it together correctly.

 

Anyway, the situation certainly feels more hopeful now than it did previously and I'm looking forward to learning more!

 

 

[betterdeadthanredemption 0]

17 hours ago, Dagger323 said:

I have used the "Ped Limit Increase From 150 to 255" mod from Nexus before but noticed no improvement if the spawning issue is already present. My theory is that the game is not actually reaching a ped limit, but certain mods are affecting textures in such a way that the game is pulling back on peds to accommodate those textures. I'll try that game config though and see if it helps, but I'm not going to count on it.

well thats what i think too. but my game was completely dead and thats the only thing i changed along with dynamic seasons (which should have made the game more laggy/dead if anything)

[TheWrath 1]

On 4/28/2024 at 4:16 AM, Gumb012 said:

It was the rpg_textures.ytd from Basic Needs Final Cut in case anyone is interested. It didn't fix spawning for all mods by itself but it seems to partially contribute to the solution at least.

 

See this is what is maddening about this issue lol. I also have that mod installed and removing others fixes the spawn issue, but for you it is this mod. It is like there is no consistency with this at all.

[kaozzz777 18]

of course a baseline and reproducable benchmark has to be set, otherwise testing is invalid and not comparible.

First make sure you either run as admin or preferably give your user account permissions for RDR2 folder (properties, security, set checkmark to full control)

Have a Save at west entry of St. Denis, time at 12am/12:00 and sunny weather, use rampage for controlling that stuff.
Should ensure normal full spawns, as weather and time dynamically adjusts spawns. Dont use speedhacks, engine might not keep up, and might need a short time for populating. vanilla is designed around a 150 ped limit. usually u get around 120peds and 30vehicles in St.Denis at mentioned time&weather.
Just run to the roundabout where a tram spawns and it should have at least 4-6 passengers. then head to the bayou lake opposite direction where you should see several roseats spoonbills chilling at the coast. On the way, usually you wont see one Ped or vehicle being the same.

at least thats what works for my testing save at around 38% complete.

Right now I'm using 10 script mods and 12 light weight LML mods without issue. Working with either AB's ScriptHook or V2.
I run Bolmins EE,TempOverhaul,BasicNeeds + PDO, Euphoria mod and RDO.

I'm not touching anything that edits ped pools. I also tried Vestigia and WhyEms Setup with increased pools, all it does is overflowing it with the same types. Engine is way to complex to use paint over jobs to fix issues.
Stuff like "StutterFix" also has no influence on the issue, it's simply giving a bit more resources which can help with gameplay performance but cant fix if the engine gets modified incorrectly.
When my game breaks, i noticed ram usage can drop from 5-6GB to 2-3GB.
 

Edited April 29 by kaozzz777

[Gumb012 2]

9 hours ago, TheWrath said:

See this is what is maddening about this issue lol. I also have that mod installed and removing others fixes the spawn issue, but for you it is this mod. It is like there is no consistency with this at all.

Yep! It's not the only one that had caused issues for me but it did seem to be one of them until I installed the mod that I linked. I only have 2 files in my stream folder now including that one. The other is player_zero_knife_holster_000_c0_000_merge.ytd for a black knife holster.

[Skadodong 0]

I'm commenting to ask for some updates about this. I've been following this thread since page 1, and to come and find out it became silent. It concerns me. I have stopped playing RDR2 because of this unnecessary game-mod breaker just because I can't go back to play vanilla. I'm really hoping for a fix. DominatorGT please come see this thread please

[Dagger323 32]

1 hour ago, Skadodong said:

I'm commenting to ask for some updates about this. I've been following this thread since page 1, and to come and find out it became silent. It concerns me. I have stopped playing RDR2 because of this unnecessary game-mod breaker just because I can't go back to play vanilla. I'm really hoping for a fix. DominatorGT please come see this thread please

I think the reason for the silence is that no new significant developments have taken place in the way of solutions. I have continued to test and troubleshoot various mods over the last week, and have come to the conclusion that trains are by far the biggest problem in terms of spawns. Even if you've managed to get passengers in stagecoaches/wagons/trollies (and even in trains themselves, when you're actually able to encounter trains), and decently abundant wildlife (including roseate spoonbills) into your game, you are most likely still experiencing a drastically reduced number of trains in the world. It is not enough to merely see trains in the distance from the gang camp, or encounter them immediately upon spawning in from a save point; you must be able to encounter them spontaneously in the wilderness AND at towns and stations throughout the game across multiple in-game hours/days. If you ride out from Valentine towards Flatneck Station, and then from there ride out across the train bridge towards Riggs Station at around 9-10 A.M., you should be able to encounter anywhere between two and three trains before you reach Wallace Station along that same track. You should also be able to encounter several trains in Rhodes in a single day. If you can go anywhere from 6 to 12 in-game hours or more without encountering a single train at various locations like this, then your game's spawns are still broken and are NOT functioning properly. The absence of trains seems to be one of the very first telltale signs that your spawns are malfunctioning, and one of the last side effects that can be resolved. In my opinion, lacking trains contributes to a VERY desolate feeling open world, and I'd encourage people to start paying more attention to them when trying to troubleshoot this issue. I'd recommend downloading the "Railroad Engineer 2.5" mod from Nexus, which adds blips on the map where trains are supposed to be spawned in, in order to determine just how much of a shortage of trains the game has with other mods installed. I have been messing around with the GameConfig file to try and get more trains spawning into the game without completely decimating the mods I have installed, but I haven't reached enough of a consistent solution yet to feel comfortable recommending anything.

Edited May 6 by Dagger323

[Sanah 17]

I started having trouble with the trains not spawning the moment I updated WhyEm'sDLC (RDO Edition). I think the author of said mod fucked up at some point and didn't bother fixing his shit, because I have been using the mod since its first public release and didn't have a problem up until its last couple updates.

That being said, finding the sweetspot on my end is being quite a task because I just don't know how much wildlife is too little, or how may peds/trams/stagecoaches are supposed to spawn in Saint Denis or any other city. Only thing I can recommend to anyone reading this is to stay away from WhyEm'sDLC and retexture/upscaling mods altogether.

Now I'm using ScriptHook v2 alongside with a couple very simple .asi mods, Online Content Unlocker, Smoking Complete and RDO (standalone). I have the feeling I'm one mod away from breaking the game, so I'm gonna leave it as it is, sadly. Crazy to think no one in this community seems to be able to fix this issue. 

Edited May 6 by Sanah

[someguylarz21 0]

Spoiler

 

Hi guys, i'm new to rdr2 modding and i have upscaled all in one package and terrain textures overhaul. for me the normal amounts of peds spawn in the saint denis trolley and the train. and i also think that the pedestrian amount is right and there are still a lot of alligators in the swamps (too much in my opinion lol). 

[Sanah 17]

1 hour ago, someguylarz21 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hi guys, i'm new to rdr2 modding and i have upscaled all in one package and terrain textures overhaul. for me the normal amounts of peds spawn in the saint denis trolley and the train. and i also think that the pedestrian amount is right and there are still a lot of alligators in the swamps (too much in my opinion lol).

Alligators will always be there, no matter how many mods you have installed. Check the spoonbills and birds in general, and also trains. Anyway some people have reported no issues at all on +50 mods setups, so yeah, the whole situation is a fucking mess.

Edited May 6 by Sanah

[Dagger323 32]

13 hours ago, someguylarz21 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hi guys, i'm new to rdr2 modding and i have upscaled all in one package and terrain textures overhaul. for me the normal amounts of peds spawn in the saint denis trolley and the train. and i also think that the pedestrian amount is right and there are still a lot of alligators in the swamps (too much in my opinion lol). 

See my most recent comment. It is simply not enough to be getting peds and wildlife spawning in. Trains, specifically, must be spontaneously appearing throughout the world as you go from location to location - NOT from seeing them in the distance while at camp and NOT from seeing them appear near you while first loading into the game - those scenarios don't count. Use the "Railroad Engineer 2.5" mod I mentioned before to determine the locations on the map where trains are supposed to be, and see if you can get them to appear when you ride to where they are. I'd wager with the specific mods you have installed that if you go and visit Rhodes and wait for 12-24 in-game hours you will most likely not find a single train. At most you might see one pull through town at night. This is not normal.

 

The frustrating thing about this is that EVERY and ANY mod seems to directly reduce train spawns. From simple .asi script mods, to graphical/visual enhancements, to Euphoria mods...and yes, even mods that use the new and supposedly "fixed" file replacement loading method. They all reduce trains. Further frustrating is the fact that other than the lack of trains, I have pretty much got the game working normally with quite a sizable selection of mods installed allowing decent amounts of wildlife and passengers in wagons, stagecoaches, and trollies (and in trains when they rarely can be found, mostly at certain out-of-the-way locations like Riggs Station at night or early morning, or when first spawning into the game from a save point that already has a train spawned in near you). Trains simply refuse to appear spontaneously throughout the world though. This completely dysfunctional train spawning is driving me crazy. I can't get the trains to spawn regularly again without removing almost every mod I have installed except for about four .asi files. I have tirelessly tried editing certain values in the GameConfig file to no avail.
 

At this point, I think someone experienced with coding/modding needs to figure out how to write a fix that will specifically target train spawning and increase their likelihood so that they will mirror the frequency of the vanilla game in spite of using other mods. The game just becomes extremely fidgety with them when modding and refuses to prioritize train spawns if you have more than a couple extremely lightweight mods loaded in. I really have a difficult time enjoying the game without trains. For me it's extremely immersion breaking. But at this point, it's basically a matter of picking your poison: nearly no trains, or essentially no mods.

Edited May 7 by Dagger323

[Sanah 17]

13 hours ago, Dagger323 said:

See my most recent comment. It is simply not enough to be getting peds and wildlife spawning in. Trains, specifically, must be spontaneously appearing throughout the world as you go from location to location - NOT from seeing them in the distance while at camp and NOT from seeing them appear near you while first loading into the game - those scenarios don't count. Use the "Railroad Engineer 2.5" mod I mentioned before to determine the locations on the map where trains are supposed to be, and see if you can get them to appear when you ride to where they are. I'd wager with the specific mods you have installed that if you go and visit Rhodes and wait for 12-24 in-game hours you will most likely not find a single train. At most you might see one pull through town at night. This is not normal.

 

The frustrating thing about this is that EVERY and ANY mod seems to directly reduce train spawns. From simple .asi script mods, to graphical/visual enhancements, to Euphoria mods...and yes, even mods that use the new and supposedly "fixed" file replacement loading method. They all reduce trains. Further frustrating is the fact that other than the lack of trains, I have pretty much got the game working normally with quite a sizable selection of mods installed allowing decent amounts of wildlife and passengers in wagons, stagecoaches, and trollies (and in trains when they rarely can be found, mostly at certain out-of-the-way locations like Riggs Station at night or early morning, or when first spawning into the game from a save point that already has a train spawned in near you). Trains simply refuse to appear spontaneously throughout the world though. This completely dysfunctional train spawning is driving me crazy. I can't get the trains to spawn regularly again without removing almost every mod I have installed except for about four .asi files. I have tirelessly tried editing certain values in the GameConfig file to no avail.
 

At this point, I think someone experienced with coding/modding needs to figure out how to write a fix that will specifically target train spawning and increase their likelihood so that they will mirror the frequency of the vanilla game in spite of using other mods. The game just becomes extremely fidgety with them when modding and refuses to prioritize train spawns if you have more than a couple extremely lightweight mods loaded in. I really have a difficult time enjoying the game without trains. For me it's extremely immersion breaking. But at this point, it's basically a matter of picking your poison: nearly no trains, or essentially no mods.

Most people say the real problem has to do with upscalers, texture packs and/or having the stream folder filled with .ytds, but that's just not true. The engine of this game might be broken, and it really does feel like it's being held together by ducktape most of the time, but I'm very sure this is not because of using mods. That's just how the game works, inconsistently and erratically when it comes to dynamic stuff. Train and animal spawning systems act weird regardless of mods (hell, even the weather system does!)

 

I've seen trains spawn in various parts of the map in what it seemed like a fucking conga - literally one after the other - with multiple mods installed at once (that including WhyEm'sDLC, PDO, RDO, AEM and so on). On the contrary, and funnily enough, I sometimes find myself having a really tough time trying to catch one by walking or galloping by the train tracks anywhere in the map, modded AND vanilla. And when I say vanilla I'm talking an untouched save, starting from Chapter 1, after clearing all mods and even the game's API cache.

 

Really, I dare you to wait for a train at Valentine's train station at the start of Chapter 2. You won't see a damned train until you actually turn around and head into town, leaving the station behind you. Then and just then you'll hear it approaching. I said it was funny but it is more frustrating than anything, almost like the game is playing with you and straight up not functioning properly.

 

Same goes with wildlife outside of missions, it's just not consistent and gets ostensibly reduced when playing for longer sessions without restarting the game or loading a save (sometimes loading a save is not enough). Anyhow, I get lots of animals (including roseate spoonbills at St. Denis roundabouts) when playing with dozens of different mods, some of them I already mentioned, but have trouble finding a simple deer in the vastness of the Heartlands when playing vanilla.

 

The only thing that is constistent though is the fact that large upscaling projects and massive texture mods like WhyEm's AGGRAVATE the issue. They are not the root, they do not cause it, they just help the engine to break faster and completely.

Edited May 7 by Sanah

[Dagger323 32]

8 hours ago, Sanah said:

Most people say the real problem has to do with upscalers, texture packs and/or having the stream folder filled with .ytds, but that's just not true. The engine of this game might be broken, and it really does feel like it's being held together by ducktape most of the time, but I'm very sure this is not because of using mods. That's just how the game works, inconsistently and erratically when it comes to dynamic stuff. Train and animal spawning systems act weird regardless of mods (hell, even the weather system does!)

 

I've seen trains spawn in various parts of the map in what it seemed like a fucking conga - literally one after the other - with multiple mods installed at once (that including WhyEm'sDLC, PDO, RDO, AEM and so on). On the contrary, and funnily enough, I sometimes find myself having a really tough time trying to catch one by walking or galloping by the train tracks anywhere in the map, modded AND vanilla. And when I say vanilla I'm talking an untouched save, starting from Chapter 1, after clearing all mods and even the game's API cache.

 

Really, I dare you to wait for a train at Valentine's train station at the start of Chapter 2. You won't see a damned train until you actually turn around and head into town, leaving the station behind you. Then and just then you'll hear it approaching. I said it was funny but it is more frustrating than anything, almost like the game is playing with you and straight up not functioning properly.

 

Same goes with wildlife outside of missions, it's just not consistent and gets ostensibly reduced when playing for longer sessions without restarting the game or loading a save (sometimes loading a save is not enough). Anyhow, I get lots of animals (including roseate spoonbills at St. Denis roundabouts) when playing with dozens of different mods, some of them I already mentioned, but have trouble finding a simple deer in the vastness of the Heartlands when playing vanilla.

 

The only thing that is constistent though is the fact that large upscaling projects and massive texture mods like WhyEm's AGGRAVATE the issue. They are not the root, they do not cause it, they just help the engine to break faster and completely.

You're right about the game's engine being erratic and somewhat unpredictable. And sure, mods are not creating the problem from nothing; they're simply exposing a flaw in how the game prioritizes train spawning. But if mods are aggravating the issue, then they clearly are a problem and a fix needs to be found to resolve it. Not necessarily from those mods themselves but ideally an overarching solution that overrides or bypasses whatever inhibitor is being applied by the game internally. I think it's less about the engine being broken and more about the fact that the engine clearly has a tier list of assets that it prioritizes over other assets when a lot of things are being rendered in at once. Evidently trains are very low on that list and are one of the first things that's cut out of the game before the ped and wildlife spawns are even touched. This is why it's possible to nearly fix the wildlife and ped spawning issues throughout the rest of the game and still have next to no trains appearing naturally.

 

After the better part of two weeks of testing train spawns I can confirm that almost any mod that is heavier than a few simple light .asi files will begin to reduce trains and the consistency of them. The more that are applied the worse it gets. Sure, there are some sporadic instances in vanilla in certain scenarios, but most of the time if a train won't spawn, it's because the player is facing in the direction that the train is coming from, and is already within a closer-than-acceptable range to allow the train to spawn without it popping in out of nowhere right in front of your eyes. That's perfectly normal spawning behavior. For the most part though, without mods, trains will spawn in consistently when the player is within a couple hundred yards of them (and not in direct line of sight of their spawn location), and this can be tested and objectively confirmed with the Railroad Engineer mod. The icons will move on the tracks along the regular train routes but will be grayed out until the player comes within range, and then they will turn white indicating a train has spawned in that location. As soon as other mods start being applied, that consistency goes down rapidly to the point where trains will only start spawning in at locations isolated from a lot of ped traffic, and not reliably either.

 

I have tested all this from the same exact save point, heading to the same assortment of locations throughout the day and testing across multiple in-game days both with mods installed and without. If someone could figure out how to solve the trains not spawning, I would say my game is nearly 90% fixed. But this is certainly not strictly a matter of texture and streaming files overloading the game's resources, as even some simple scripts can and do remove trains.

Edited May 7 by Dagger323

[Sanah 17]

22 minutes ago, Dagger323 said:

trains will only start spawning in at locations isolated from a lot of ped traffic, and not reliably either.

Okay, I think I'm just starting to get it. That is probably why the conga-like spawning always happened to me when I was around Riggs Station, which is pretty empty and has 4 or 5 peds roaming around, at most. Thanks for your deep insight on the matter, I have been investigating this issue for almost a month now and couldn't help myself, now that I have carefully read all your posts here I'm starting to connect the dots. As I said, the game's code is probably held together by ducktape, and when you touch it it esentially starts sacrificing and altering vanilla behaviour because God only knows why. 

 

Thanks again. I will be keeping an eye on this thread in hoping that some miracle happens and this masterpiece of a game gets the treatment it deserves. I'm gonna keep playing modless until then. I see no point in sacrificing all the genuine dynamic stuff from base game just to be able to smoke longer or have some upscaled textures.

[Dagger323 32]

40 minutes ago, Sanah said:

Okay, I think I'm just starting to get it. That is probably why the conga-like spawning always happened to me when I was around Riggs Station, which is pretty empty and has 4 or 5 peds roaming around, at most. Thanks for your deep insight on the matter, I have been investigating this issue for almost a month now and couldn't help myself, now that I have carefully read all your posts here I'm starting to connect the dots. As I said, the game's code is probably held together by ducktape, and when you touch it it esentially starts sacrificing and altering vanilla behaviour because God only knows why. 

 

Thanks again. I will be keeping an eye on this thread in hoping that some miracle happens and this masterpiece of a game gets the treatment it deserves. I'm gonna keep playing modless until then. I see no point in sacrificing all the genuine dynamic stuff from base game just to be able to smoke longer or have some upscaled textures.

Yep, Riggs Station is actually one of the most consistent locations to find trains at even when you're modding (though they still don't always appear correctly there either). Saint Denis, Valentine, Rhodes, Annesburg (aside from trains parked in the depot), and Flatneck Station, among others, are all locations that rarely if ever receive train visits. In vanilla, they get trains all the time. The difference is quite stark and not something that I think many people have been paying enough attention to. They assume their game is "fixed" just because they've removed enough problematic mods to start seeing rare birds and stagecoach passengers again, not realizing that trains are still almost completely vacant from the world.

 

I'm going to put up with the minimal train spawns for the time being. I have grown so accustomed to the features that the mods I've installed provide and it would be a huge loss for me to eliminate those mods, especially since I have mostly fixed all the other spawning issues. But I am still very displeased with the current state the game is in without correct train spawns, and like you, I am eagerly awaiting a solution. At this point my game is literally one aspect away from being completely acceptable. But that one aspect is hugely important to me and is a massive factor in immersion. I truly hope someone out there with coding/modding experience sees this and can provide a fix.

[JKL409 7]

15 minutes ago, Dagger323 said:

Yep, Riggs Station is actually one of the most consistent locations to find trains at even when you're modding (though they still don't always appear correctly there either). Saint Denis, Valentine, Rhodes, Annesburg (aside from trains parked in the depot), and Flatneck Station, among others, are all locations that rarely if ever receive train visits. In vanilla, they get trains all the time. The difference is quite stark and not something that I think many people have been paying enough attention to. They assume their game is "fixed" just because they've removed enough problematic mods to start seeing rare birds and stagecoach passengers again, not realizing that trains are still almost completely vacant from the world.

 

I'm going to put up with the minimal train spawns for the time being. I have grown so accustomed to the features that the mods I've installed provide and it would be a huge loss for me to eliminate those mods, especially since I have mostly fixed all the other spawning issues. But I am still very displeased with the current state the game is in without correct train spawns, and like you, I am eagerly awaiting a solution. At this point my game is literally one aspect away from being completely acceptable. But that one aspect is hugely important to me and is a massive factor in immersion. I truly hope someone out there with coding/modding experience sees this and can provide a fix.

 

I've given up on the game until a solution is found. I'm about 50% of the way through the story. 

 

I personally have doubts that any gameconfig alone will fix the issue, although I commend the modders for trying. Similar issues have occurred in the past with GTAV. 

 

I'm unsure if it's the fact the engine simply can't cope, or the way the game was designed. But... At present, the RDR2 modding scene isn't huge. So I have doubts this will ever get fixed. 

 

I think people have made good points regarding inconsistencies with mods etc. But I would seriously seriously recommend before claiming this is also happening in vanilla for people to do a full clean of their folders, including mod folder and documents folder etc.. Otherwise this is just going to add unnecessary confusion to the mix. 

 

I have previously dabbled with train mods and know for a fact if you have any mods that mess with how fast time travels, this will effect trains, and potentially break them alltogether so they don't spawn at all. 

 

Side note: I also worry... GTAVI, once released on PC, could also be effected.