modding HUGE Problem with Modding RDR2 That No One is Talking About

[Lonewulv13 4]

The mod is open source and since both games run on the same engine I can't imagine it would be that difficult.

[JKL409 7]

There's also this one I found: 

https://www.gta5-mods.com/tools/resource-adjuster

 

In fact there appears to be quite a few of these kinds of mods for GTAV. The issue is how relevant they would be to the RDR2 issue we're facing, and if they are, how easy they would be to re-enginer for this game.

 

My programming experience is little, so I don't feel I would be of much use in this process.

[amrcwaffles 0]

Idk much about modding but heres how I can help for now,

I have: 

red dead offline

whyem dlc

map editor and a lot of new camp maps, safe houses

lockdown manager

lenny's simple trainer

those are I think the bigger ones I have, the others are all just wardrobe and weapons 

and I don't think I have the situation you mention, the trams have 4-5 passengers on them at night and the stagecoaches are normal

[JKL409 7]

9 hours ago, amrcwaffles said:

Idk much about modding but heres how I can help for now,

I have: 

red dead offline

whyem dlc

map editor and a lot of new camp maps, safe houses

lockdown manager

lenny's simple trainer

those are I think the bigger ones I have, the others are all just wardrobe and weapons 

and I don't think I have the situation you mention, the trams have 4-5 passengers on them at night and the stagecoaches are normal

That's good, but the despawning happens in stages. So it might be less severe for you, but still happening. Try finding some rare animals without any mods loaded, save your game, re-enable mods, then load back in and see if those same animals are still spawning.

 

That's the only way I was able to fully verify if the issue was still occurring.

 

It might be it's not happening for you because the resolution you're playing at is lower than for those that are having this issue, or your graphic settings are less demanding.

[CurtisG2000 0]

It's crazy how I hadn't really noticed this issue until I saw this post. Now I can’t unsee it. The world becomes almost lifeless when using a lot of LML mods. We need a solution to this issue asap. 😵‍💫 

[JKL409 7]

15 hours ago, CurtisG2000 said:

It's crazy how I hadn't really noticed this issue until I saw this post. Now I can’t unsee it. The world becomes almost lifeless when using a lot of LML mods. We need a solution to this issue asap. 😵‍💫 

I've been trying to get this post/issue traction in the hope we can get a modder on board to create some kind of workaround, but so far I've been unsuccessful. 

[volteone 0]

Any idea if this would break the game?

Razed Mods

 

This is the list of the files this mod modifies.

I haven't notice the issue which you mentioned but if you have time let me know if this break! I will test from my end too, just installed the game again after 2 years and bumped into this post. Thanks for mentioning.

Update: Checked for trams in SD, 3-4 passengers at all times, checked for coaches, sometimes 1, sometimes even 2 passengers, checked for birds in the sky, and trains got like 3-4 passengers in every coach with the guards at the end and also the rifleman before entering the last coach, haven't checked for rare animals, most probably that should be there too. Will update once I check on that.

Edited February 26 by volteone
Update post using the mod

[amrcwaffles 0]

On 2/18/2024 at 5:19 AM, JKL409 said:

That's good, but the despawning happens in stages. So it might be less severe for you, but still happening. Try finding some rare animals without any mods loaded, save your game, re-enable mods, then load back in and see if those same animals are still spawning.

 

That's the only way I was able to fully verify if the issue was still occurring.

 

It might be it's not happening for you because the resolution you're playing at is lower than for those that are having this issue, or your graphic settings are less demanding.

a few days ago I installed Rampage trainer, I visit saint denis today and did notice all the trolleys empty. I made sure to circle saint denis and check most of them, every single one no passengers, only driver at around 1-4pm. I removed the mod and load the same save and it's immediately back to normal

I didn't notice any difference with animals. still an overflowing amount with or without the mod, I hunt a lot and not long ago I just played vanilla, so I'll notice

maybe two issues are different? 

all my settings always been on ultra

[JKL409 7]

5 hours ago, amrcwaffles said:

a few days ago I installed Rampage trainer, I visit saint denis today and did notice all the trolleys empty. I made sure to circle saint denis and check most of them, every single one no passengers, only driver at around 1-4pm. I removed the mod and load the same save and it's immediately back to normal

I didn't notice any difference with animals. still an overflowing amount with or without the mod, I hunt a lot and not long ago I just played vanilla, so I'll notice

maybe two issues are different? 

all my settings always been on ultra

Do you have any other mods installed besides the rampage trainer though...? 

[volteone 0]

not really, but I plan to keep minimal mods going ahead, coz they author is correct, the town totally is a ghosted one and other things too, which we may not test but could be affected.

[HughJanus 242]

Hm, never noticed this either.

Does this only happen with LML? What, if you only install script mods?

[JKL409 7]

4 hours ago, HughJanus said:

Hm, never noticed this either.

Does this only happen with LML? What, if you only install script mods?

I've not personally tested this, but I'd imagine anything that puts a strain on the engine with the amount of assets could trigger it. So I'd imagine it depends on what the script is doing.

Edited March 7 by JKL409

[neku 0]

I have only four mods that only alters the small portion of game active and they are not even massive of a mods but apparently thats enough to completely alter the game... Just noticed all trains are now vacant
Its insane how the game is out for 5 years and only now the problem is being investigated 

Edited March 8 by neku

[JKL409 7]

1 hour ago, neku said:

I have only four mods that only alters the small portion of game active and they are not even massive of a mods but apparently thats enough to completely alter the game... Just noticed all trains are now vacant
Its insane how the game is out for 5 years and only now the problem is being investigated 

The problem is the problem isn't being investigated as far as I know... 

Unfortunately, my coding experience is too limited to be able to look into this, although I'm familiar with how the file and folder structure works and have a lot of experience modding the game.

[BigPimpin 0]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:08 PM, Dagger323 said:

So after modding RDR2 for about five months (I first started modding it in early August 2023), it has now come to my attention that modding essentially breaks the game engine's ability to properly spawn in NPCs, wildlife, and even trains, in the way the game was intended. Trains rarely if ever spawn in, and if they do, NPCs will be nearly or completely absent from riding as passengers on the train, and the armed guard will be gone who usually stands at the back end of the caboose (only the engineer will be driving the train, but no one else will be present). NPCs will also essentially never be found riding as passengers in stagecoaches or in the back of wagons or riding shotgun next to the driver (only the driver will spawn in). In general, there will be less NPCs seen standing or sitting at train stops like Emerald Station or Wallace Station, or at various locations throughout the world. Further, wildlife is drastically reduced, with only a few birds and deer and whatnot scattered sparsely throughout the surrounding area, perhaps at about a 20 percent (or less) amount of the densely populated wildlife that is typically found in the vanilla game.

 

The only way to fix these issues is seemingly to uninstall most if not all mods to put less strain on the game engine and allow it to render in NPCs, trains, and wildlife correctly. I have had numerous mods installed from both rdr2mods as well as nexusmods, from modded quarter horse breeds/coats, to environment texture overhaul/upscales, to the Arthur Morgan Upscale Project, 4K Story and Side Characters, realistic gun metals and wickedhorseman's Firearm Cosmetics, euphoria ragdoll mods such as C.E.R.R, A.E.M and W.E.R.O, as well as PDO and fixes to decrease ped accuracy, and several others. All the mods I use regularly only require lml, scripthook and dinput8.dll, and none require version.dll or any online content unlocker, but it doesn't seem to make a difference either way - more than just a couple mods being installed at once still breaks the open world's NPCs, trains, and wildlife from spawning properly. I have had to remove almost all my horse mods, gun mods, texture mods, and combat mods like PDO in order to get the open world populated correctly again. Basically I have next to no mods that I downloaded that I can use at this point. This comes as quite a huge letdown for me, as I was really enjoying getting into modding the game how I wanted it to be. But diminishing the open world into a mere shell of what it is supposed to be is simply too immersion breaking for me to be able to ignore.

 

I don't know why more people aren't talking about this, because it is a huge problem in my eyes, but I've basically found no information about this anywhere. Who out there that is into RDR2 modding has noticed these issues? Is there any solution to this that anyone knows of? I really don't want to have to delete all my mods, but at this point, it looks like that's the only way I can get the full intended single player experience of the game without watering down the open world and sacrificing immersion.

 

I actually don't have this train issue. I took a train from St Denis to Rhodes and there were multiple passengers in each car, about 4-7. There was 1 guard in the back and multiple up front. I was using Scripthook V2 so I switched to AB's scripthook and also got the same result. Wildlife like deers, bucks, rabbits usually spawn in a group of about 2-6 for me, I'm not sure what vanilla is like.

Edited March 12 by BigPimpin

[Guest]

Copied from reddit:

 

Its a known issue tied to modded assets being loaded in your area, the biggest culprits are custom .ytds that are being applied to player clothing and other model/texture mods or even ymaps.

 

For example: you have a fully vanilla game and add 100 modded ytds that edit valentine only now it will cause tons of ambient spawns/scenarios to not load in that area specifically but, if you are nowhere near the modded valentine the spawns will be just fine.

 

Most of the player clothing mods like jmrp, wyems etc all have custom retextures for all types of clothing so if you are wearing any clothing components that have been modded with files in the stream folder you will automatically lose ambient spawns/scenarios almost everywhere you go because you are basically a walking memory overload. The more clothing you wear the less spawns you will encounter, if you are dressed in fully vanilla clothing you will notice some spawns coming back.

 

All modded files contribute to this problem but the biggest culprits are .ytds

 

I personally think its due to lml not having the ability to use compressed files and having to resort to load the full filesizes of modded assets into memory unlike gta v with openiv where it will load rpfs with the compressed modded assets in them.

 

Hope i explained it well enough, my english isnt that great.

 

Feel free to share this with the people in that thread, i dont feel like creating account.

[Dagger323 24]

On 3/11/2024 at 8:01 PM, BigPimpin said:

 

I actually don't have this train issue. I took a train from St Denis to Rhodes and there were multiple passengers in each car, about 4-7. There was 1 guard in the back and multiple up front. I was using Scripthook V2 so I switched to AB's scripthook and also got the same result. Wildlife like deers, bucks, rabbits usually spawn in a group of about 2-6 for me, I'm not sure what vanilla is like.

Forcing a train and passengers to spawn by buying a ticket to ride one is not the same as encountering trains with passengers and a guard spontaneously in the world. Try seeing if you can spot trains with passengers when you're NOT riding them. Also, as others have pointed out, the specific mods you're using and the resolution and graphical settings of your game will greatly impact how likely you are to experience this issue.

[mashih 0]

Just sharing my experience incase it helps:

 

I have added / removed alot of mods throughout my current gameplay ( I am in chapter 3. ). I used to have WhyDLC and a few clothing mods and I removed them

 

I have recently added tons of texture mods including:

 

Almost all Upscaled Items Hub mods

4k Story and Side characters

Upscaled Animals: Large, medium, small, reptiles

BetterFacialAnimations

CERR

Gun_metal_rework

Crime and Law Rebalance

RDOffline

Terrain Texure overhaul

UpscaleTerrain 2k and 4K

ImprovementsInBlood and BloodLust

PDO

Roleplayer's dream

Rampage

 

also some small mods like:

Gun Tricks

nohitmarker

horseHolster

NobulletTrail

TieYourLasso

SmokingComplete

 

 

After adding all above mods, i decided to teleport around using Rampage and test the world to see if I have this bug:

-  While chilling in Valentine, train came with like 4-6 passengers in each cart and guard standing at the end of it, so i think its normal 

- Stagecoaches around towns were 50% empty of passengers. I am not sure if they are supposed to always have passengers

- Trams in Saint Denis all had 4-6 passengers each.

 

Note: I have not started ANY missions since I installed these mods, just roaming around,. I am not sure if this will trigger the bug or not.

Also, I play on 5120x1440 on 3080ti and 5900x. my settings are mix of medium/high/ultra at 38-70 fps depending on place.

[tuesday 1]

Let's hope that Jrw can solve this, we are praying for you brother 

[JKL409 7]

1 hour ago, mashih said:

Just sharing my experience incase it helps:

 

I have added / removed alot of mods throughout my current gameplay ( I am in chapter 3. ). I used to have WhyDLC and a few clothing mods and I removed them

 

I have recently added tons of texture mods including:

 

Almost all Upscaled Items Hub mods

4k Story and Side characters

Upscaled Animals: Large, medium, small, reptiles

BetterFacialAnimations

CERR

Gun_metal_rework

Crime and Law Rebalance

RDOffline

Terrain Texure overhaul

UpscaleTerrain 2k and 4K

ImprovementsInBlood and BloodLust

PDO

Roleplayer's dream

Rampage

 

also some small mods like:

Gun Tricks

nohitmarker

horseHolster

NobulletTrail

TieYourLasso

SmokingComplete

 

 

After adding all above mods, i decided to teleport around using Rampage and test the world to see if I have this bug:

-  While chilling in Valentine, train came with like 4-6 passengers in each cart and guard standing at the end of it, so i think its normal 

- Stagecoaches around towns were 50% empty of passengers. I am not sure if they are supposed to always have passengers

- Trams in Saint Denis all had 4-6 passengers each.

 

Note: I have not started ANY missions since I installed these mods, just roaming around,. I am not sure if this will trigger the bug or not.

Also, I play on 5120x1440 on 3080ti and 5900x. my settings are mix of medium/high/ultra at 38-70 fps depending on place.

That's great, but the real final test is whether or not rare animals are correctly spawning or not. I often test this using the flamingos that hang around outside St Denis. It's not bulletproof, but if they're spawning that you might have found a sweetspot. 

You can find them West of St Denis alongside the traintracks heading in: red dead redemption 2 flamingos - Google Search

[JKL409 7]

5 minutes ago, tuesday said:

Let's hope that Jrw can solve this, we are praying for you brother 

I wouldn't hold out hope.... He's not responded since. 😞

[mashih 0]

7 hours ago, JKL409 said:

That's great, but the real final test is whether or not rare animals are correctly spawning or not. I often test this using the flamingos that hang around outside St Denis. It's not bulletproof, but if they're spawning that you might have found a sweetspot. 

You can find them West of St Denis alongside the traintracks heading in: red dead redemption 2 flamingos - Google Search

I just tried this, i went to that spot twice and I couldnt spot them.  There were other birds and seagulls but no flamingos. 
Also, I started noticing how few brids there are. But I am comparing this to my memory from my first playthrough (no mods) on xbox. 

 

I am going to test without mods, (by deleting every single mod from RDR2 Folder), also maybe with lower resolutions and see. Do you know if the save itself can be ruined, meaning you wont fix this if you uninstall mods.

 

Edit: I tested without mods and was able to spot the flamingos right away. noticed few more birds, but overall population not big difference.

 

Edited March 17 by mashih

[tuesday 1]

17 hours ago, JKL409 said:

I wouldn't hold out hope.... He's not responded since. 😞

who knows, maybe he's working on it

 

until he tells us we need to hope he is testing fixes to this problem

[Sptz 0]

I've started my first playthrough now that I have a high end PC hooked up to an OLED TV. Only thing I'm using is DLSSTweaks to Force DLAA (which looks amazing) but the textures a bit meh at times.

 

Stumbled here whilst looking for 4K upscaled terrain / clothing / face textures etc 😕 Absolute shame, really wanted to experience this game in a bit higher fidelity. 

 

So, I'm assuming that installing LML and loading ANY mod will start, overtime, screwing with ped limits?

[JKL409 7]

4 hours ago, Sptz said:

I've started my first playthrough now that I have a high end PC hooked up to an OLED TV. Only thing I'm using is DLSSTweaks to Force DLAA (which looks amazing) but the textures a bit meh at times.

 

Stumbled here whilst looking for 4K upscaled terrain / clothing / face textures etc 😕 Absolute shame, really wanted to experience this game in a bit higher fidelity. 

 

So, I'm assuming that installing LML and loading ANY mod will start, overtime, screwing with ped limits?

Not any mod, but the limit before you start having problems is extremely low if you want to max out everything at 4k.

 

WhyemsDLC and other large content mods, texture mods (particularly 4k ones) and some other random mods that effect how much the engine produces will cause it. 

 

A single 4k texture mod will trigger it, you might get away with one or two 2k ones, but it varies.